Isosceles vs Weaver

[jshwak]

Well, gee... I wonder why USSOCOM went out to guys like John Shawn, Jerry Barnhart, Rob Leatham, Bennie Cooley, Ken Hackathorn, Todd Jarrett and all of the other "gamers" out there to teach them how to shoot if they already had it figured out and written down in those flawless Field Manuals of theirs.

What's even crazier is that they all use shot timers, chasing all those "meaningless 1/10ths of seconds" like you need to be faster than your enemy or something.

I guess they're just doing it wrong. What could they possibly know about winning gunfights.

I hope this news doesn't travel too far. To think no one ever needs to learn anything about shooting that isn't listed in an Army Field Manual... that could put a lot of instructors out of business.

wow.. I've been doing it wrong all these years.. no wonder I always lose at paintball

[Valorius]

Well, gee... I wonder why USSOCOM...

Let me know when you figure it out. (I'll give you a hint: See NRA Instructor's answer. SOCOM is the cool kids club)

PS: From what i've seen, a lot of "instructors" should be out of business. Or they should stop trying to reinvent the wheel to make themselves stand out from the crowd because "my way is better, the old way that instructor X teaches will get you killed."

If anyone can provide one documented incident where a US soldier or a cop was killed because he used weaver instead of iso, or because he used a conventional grip vs an extended grip, i will admit i am 100% wrong, and never post in this section of the forum again.

Good luck with that. Because it has never happened.

[orionz06]

Let me know when you figure it out.

PS: From what i've seen, a lot of "instructors" should be out of business. Or they should stop trying to reinvent the wheel to make themselves stand out from the crowd because "my way is better, the old way that instructor X teaches will get you killed."

If anyone can provide one documented incident where a US soldier was killed because he used weaver instead of iso, or because he used a conventional grip vs an extended grip, i will admit i am 100% wrong, and never post in this section of the forum again.

Good luck with that.

"This will help you shoot better" does not translate to "this will get you killed" nor has anything like that ever been stated. Simply put, guys better than you or I who have done more than you are I and have been more successful than you or I advocate a technique that happens to work very well, more so than the technique you are dogmatically clinging to. If you are shooting at a skill level that is satisfactory to you that is dandy, don't fault others for shooting better. What is comes down to is some people shoot to improve their ability to shoot, others like loud noises. If you are in the former category it would serve you well to be open minded to any technique that might give you an advantage. If in the latter category rock on with your bad self.


And FWIW I agree that many instructors should be out of business, but those that should remain are the ones advocating the technique you seem to loathe for some intangible reason.

[Gun]

PS: From what i've seen, a lot of "instructors" should be out of business. Or they should stop trying to reinvent the wheel to make themselves stand out from the crowd because "my way is better, the old way that instructor X teaches will get you killed."

Can you point to one instructor that uses this as a mantra, besides the US Military.

If anyone can provide one documented incident where a US soldier or a cop was killed because he used weaver instead of iso, or because he used a conventional grip vs an extended grip, i will admit i am 100% wrong, and never post in this section of the forum again.

Wow, making this statement alone should disqualify you. Please read my initial
post in this thread.

*********************************************

There are so many subtle variations of holding a weapon, and the end result
will get the job done. You never progressed past your basic training, maybe
because you were never deployed in a forward area, took on enemy combatants,
or you took to the army way in a very literal sense. The basis for military training
should be so that adaption in the field can happen, but this only happens when you
are actually in battle. Is this why SOCOM are the ones who carry out critical missions?

[NRA Recruiter]

So there is some value to them in shooting well.

Not really or they would work at improving. They'll expend 50 rounds trying to hit a watermelon and when they hit it with the 50th round proclaim their exelence.

[Valorius]

Not really or they would work at improving. They'll expend 50 rounds trying to hit a watermelon and when they hit it with the 50th round proclaim their exelence.

There is a lot of merit to teaching people to shoot with a single shot, or one round loaded in the magazine.

When a person only has one shot they are a lot more careful about how they use it.

[synergy]

Let me know when you figure it out. (I'll give you a hint: See NRA Instructor's answer. SOCOM is the cool kids club)

Yep, they are the cool kids... because they can be relied upon to perform when asked.

By the way, can you name one unit tasked with hostage rescue that doesn't have competition shooters invited in frequently to teach? I mean, what's more of a challenging problem than hitting a room full of armed dudes and making sure all of the good guys and the hostage go home? Seems like a pretty demanding job responsibility.

FBI HRT has Scott Warren.
SFOD-D invited Jerry Barnhart, Rob Leatham, and others in.
DEVGRU invited Todd Jarrett (amongst others) in.

And to think the guys getting in the most gunfights are the ones "chasing fads" and worrying about "meaningless 1/10th's of seconds."

I guess they just don't have anyone down there who qualified expert with an M16 to show them the error of their ways.