If an officer asks to see your weapon?

[GunLawyer001]

And what law suggests that you need to answer any question from a LEO, that would reveal what is not obvious? If you told him what I suggested, or told him, “none of your business”, or even, “are we done here?”, you put an end to the questioning, right?

Telling an officer what you suggested would be telling him "I don't understand the law but I have an aggressive attitude, so treat me like someone at the lower end of the IQ bell curve." It would be as effective as saying "I'm waiting for the mothership to beam me up", and is about as accurate.

It conveys much the same info as the dufuses who ask potential buyers of their shady wares "are you employed by or working with any police organization? You have to tell me if you are." No, they don't. Not in at least 49 states, anyway, and Pennsylvania is one of them. But that smug question conveys to the officer much the same info as that African guy running around the war-torn streets carrying a Kalashnikov and wearing a bright orange flotation vest. It just screams "my mother should have abstained from Khat usage during her pregnancy."

Non-custodial interrogations don't require Miranda warnings.

To answer your query, we're supposed to aquire the weapon, verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it. With that being said, I don't advocate excessive gun control, but in three years I have seen quite a few guns taken out of the possession of dangerous gang members and the life possibly saved could've been your own. It's better to be safe than sorry, and cooperation is always appreciated. And for the record, I'm a firearms sportsman and lifelong enthusiast. I'm not some despicable gun grabber.

That is an unfortunate mandate, because it's a warrantless search in violation of the 4th Amendment. The claim that "it works" because these routine searches have succeeded in taking guns away from "dangerous gang members" is irrelevant to the fact that many citizens are being deprived of their property and their rights to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects.

Taking a gun away during a traffic stop "for officer safety" doesn't require recording the serial number or comparing it to either the stolen database or the record of sale database, and the fact that the ROS database is allowed ONLY BECAUSE it's incomplete means that it's improper to use it as a registry, and seizing a gun because it's not in the ROS database is a violation of due process and common sense.

The police could solve more crimes if they were relieved of the warrant requirement. That hardly means that we can nullify the 4th Amendment without violating the Constitution. It just means that life in a police state is easier for the cops. Ask your typical airline traveler if he enjoys his time in the airport more now than he did pre-9/11, back when he still had some semblance of privacy and civil rights, before the govt felt free to feel him and his grandma up without a warrant or probable cause, before "stopping bad things" trumped "treating us like free citizens".

[Heckler N Koch]

Have a nice day, I'm going out. I'll be off duty today, CCing my beautiful P30!

[ray h]

H n K
With all due respect, you and your department are the reason I wont volunteer that I am armed.
Reason being, your statement "verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it."
One of the guns I carry was my stepfather's, he left it to my mom and she gave it to me about 20 years ago. My point is, it wont show up in any database. You cant verify ownership. You can verify that it is not on a stolen gun list but there is no way it will come back in my name.
If an officer in your department decides to take my firearm I have little recourse, Im not legally allowed to physically fight to keep it, hell, I dont dare even argue about it for fear of being arrested. The cop goes home proud of himself at the end of the day and I spend weeks or months and $$$$$ trying to get my gun back.
You bet your ass Im going to take reasonable measures, including lieing, to keep an officer from knowing Im armed. You change your policies, I'll change mine.

[arjohnson]

Originally Posted by Heckler N Koch
To answer your query, we're supposed to aquire the weapon, verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it. With that being said, I don't advocate excessive gun control, but in three years I have seen quite a few guns taken out of the possession of dangerous gang members and the life possibly saved could've been your own. It's better to be safe than sorry, and cooperation is always appreciated. And for the record, I'm a firearms sportsman and lifelong enthusiast. I'm not some despicable gun grabber.

You may not advocate it but you are enforcing it, same differance to me.

[arjohnson]

Have a nice day, I'm going out. I'll be off duty today, CCing my beautiful P30!

Sounds like you are here to stir the pot, am I correct?

[streaker69]

It's standard protocol to ask if any toys are in the car, it's nothing personal, at least not from my perspective. I wouldn't suggest making a big deal out of it, some of us are firearms lovers as well.

So, how's everyone's Monday going thus far?

Way to stick to your guns on your opinion. It would appear you've edited a post that many people have quoted. I guess you've either realized how wrong your departmental policy was, or are embarrassed by it.

[longcall911]

Have a nice day, I'm going out. I'll be off duty today, CCing my beautiful P30!

As others have said, welcome to the forum.

I hope you have thick skin. If you haven't already, check the many CC & OC threads regarding issues referenced above and don't take the opposition to your statements personally.

There are a lot of good, smart folks who contribute to conversation here. Most are very direct. Take a good hard look at what people are saying. You might come away with a better understanding as to why your SOP is at best a poor policy.

If you want to keep illegal weapons off the street, rather than shake down everyone you stop, it may be more effective to keeps criminals in jail.

[Blastem]

I must say that some really great discussion comes from this forum! I have additional questions related to carrying in places like Philadelphia. Should I start another thread as to not get too far off topic? My question is can I CC in places like the Liberty Bell, Founders Hall, etc? Please let me know if I should open another topic? I know if it is posted it is what it is.

[Heckler N Koch]

As others have said, welcome to the forum.

I hope you have thick skin. If you haven't already, check the many CC & OC threads regarding issues referenced above and don't take the opposition to your statements personally.

There are a lot of good, smart folks who contribute to conversation here. Most are very direct. Take a good hard look at what people are saying. You might come away with a better understanding as to why your SOP is at best a poor policy.

If you want to keep illegal weapons off the street, rather than shake down everyone you stop, it may be more effective to keeps criminals in jail.

Thanks for the welcome and lol words on a computer screen don't bother me. I've dealt with the baddest criminals for 6 years, face to face. Anyhow, I'm a very active member of the gun community, I'm a member of three other forums and I'm thinking about starting up a YouTube gun channel, range trips, reviews etc.

[twency]

I must say that some really great discussion comes from this forum! I have additional questions related to carrying in places like Philadelphia. Should I start another thread as to not get too far off topic? My question is can I CC in places like the Liberty Bell, Founders Hall, etc? Please let me know if I should open another topic? I know if it is posted it is what it is.

You'll want to start here: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html, then if you have additional questions do a search first. Odds are high that your questions have already been discussed here in the not-too-distant past.