Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #71
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Please Note: The poster was issued an infraction for this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    My SOP is to say "none of your business."
    Yeah, that makes all of us law abiding gun owners look really intelligent. What an idiot or should I say JustinIDIOT?
    Last edited by 135Grain; January 16th, 2012 at 03:19 AM.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by 135Grain View Post
    Yeah, that makes all of us law abiding gun owners look really intelligent. What an idiot or should I say JustinIDIOT?
    If exercising my rights makes me an idiot, so be it.
    Last edited by Justin///M; January 16th, 2012 at 03:28 AM.
    Life has a melody. Not great, not terrible.

  3. #73
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    philly, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by 135Grain View Post
    Yeah, that makes all of us law abiding gun owners look really intelligent. What an idiot or should I say JustinIDIOT?
    Yeah, because if you have nothing to hide, you should just lube up and pretend you like it. Where did the notion that only guilty people have rights come from?

  4. #74
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    Erie, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    There are knowledgeable people who post the facts and the law, and there are people who just make things up. You are not among the former group.

    And what law suggests that you need to answer any question from a LEO, that would reveal what is not obvious? If you told him what I suggested, or told him, “none of your business”, or even, “are we done here?”, you put an end to the questioning, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heckler N Koch View Post
    To answer your query, we're supposed to acquire the weapon, verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it.
    Exactly how do you do this?

  6. #76
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    Mercer, Pennsylvania
    (Mercer County)
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heckler N Koch View Post
    To answer your query, we're supposed to aquire the weapon, verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it. With that being said, I don't advocate excessive gun control, but in three years I have seen quite a few guns taken out of the possession of dangerous gang members and the life possibly saved could've been your own. It's better to be safe than sorry, and cooperation is always appreciated. And for the record, I'm a firearms sportsman and lifelong enthusiast. I'm not some despicable gun grabber.
    Since when are we required to walk around with proof of ownership for everything we own? Do you also check to see if the boots I'm wearing actually belong to me?
    There's no such thing as a free lunch.

  7. #77
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    So, how's everyone's Monday going thus far?
    Last edited by Heckler N Koch; January 16th, 2012 at 03:11 PM.

  8. #78
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    Lower Bucks, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Couldn't most of this be avoided by taking several actions?

    1. Don't drive in a manner in which you attract police. (I need to remind myself that since I tend to speed, but then, I-95 and sometimes the Turnpike are like the PA Autobahn, some days...)

    2. Don't flaunt your weapon or your LTCF at an unavoidable traffic stop. There's no need for them to know you are carrying.

    3. Don't mouth off at the officer or act like you have something to hide. Be respectful. And hopefully your car doesn't smell like drugs or alcohol so they don't have any reason to ask you to step out.


    If all three of the above are followed....I would highly doubt that most people would have reason for the police to even ASK "Are you armed?" If, for some strange reason, they DID ask....if one is respectful and honest, I imagine the gun would be looked at and handed right back.

    I know we have rights but we should be more angry at the idiots who cause the police to be jumpy and suspicious rather than the police themselves (although, disclaimer, I realize there ARE bad, cranky, or power hungry cops out there.). For instance, social workers view all parents as "bad", even if they're good, because of all the abuse cases they see. It makes me angry at the idiot parents ruining things for everyone else. Same with police....they see so much trash that if we start acting suspicious or angry at a traffic stop, they're gonna probably assume we are trouble and they're going to give us a hard time.
    "Stupid people are ruining America." --Herman Cain

  9. #79
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    Newport, Pennsylvania
    (Perry County)
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heckler N Koch View Post
    To answer your query, we're supposed to aquire the weapon, verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it. With that being said, I don't advocate excessive gun control, but in three years I have seen quite a few guns taken out of the possession of dangerous gang members and the life possibly saved could've been your own. It's better to be safe than sorry, and cooperation is always appreciated. And for the record, I'm a firearms sportsman and lifelong enthusiast. I'm not some despicable gun grabber.
    And that is part of the problem. Departmental policy is in violation of the 4th Amendment. A gun should be not be treated differently than a cell phone or a chainsaw. We don't, as a matter of policy, take those things to ensure they aren't stolen and everything is on the level. We, as police, have no right to seize personal property to determine that it is legally owned unless there is probable cause to do so.

    As to the officer safety issue, I have mixed feeling there. It is difficult to write a citation and keep your eyes on the violator. At the same time, if the person has volunteered that they have an LTCF and a firearm, there is little reason to believe them to be a threat. I was always more comfortable when someone volunteered the information, but I'm a gun guy. I said I wouldn't volunteer it because there are a lot of police officers that aren't gun guys and really do believe that citizens should not have them.
    "A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself"

    "He created the game, played the game, and lost the game.... All under his own terms, by his own doing." JW34

    "Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato

  10. #80
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    Dec 2009
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    Allentown, Pennsylvania
    (Lehigh County)
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    Default Re: If an officer asks to see your weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heckler N Koch View Post
    To answer your query, we're supposed to aquire the weapon, verify legal ownership and if all is on the level, return it. With that being said, I don't advocate excessive gun control, but in three years I have seen quite a few guns taken out of the possession of dangerous gang members and the life possibly saved could've been your own. It's better to be safe than sorry, and cooperation is always appreciated. And for the record, I'm a firearms sportsman and lifelong enthusiast. I'm not some despicable gun grabber.
    Obviously I welcome you to the forum, but I must disagree with this procedure.

    It's absolutely impossible for you to verify legal ownership during just a few minutes throughout the stop. There is no registry in PA for you to match owner to weapon and the PSP just emphasized this point (I can't find the thread at the moment).

    Handling the firearm makes the situation less safe than leaving it be, in my opinion, unless you know that the driver is prohibited from owning it (active felony warrant showing up, for example).

    I'm not against you asking, to be clear, or against you checking for active warrants or prohibited/unprohibited status of the driver if you're given a "yes" answer. I'm just against a preemptive seizure based on nothing but speculation that treats law-abiding citizens like dangerous gang members.

    Asking a law-abiding citizen to surrender a weapon while you run an impossible to verify 'verification' is absurd if you ask me.

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