If an officer asks to see your weapon?

[Gun]

Wow Dave, you beat me to it. What, that you didn't understand as well.

You do not have an obligation to answer. There's your sign!

But if you think you're going to be advised of your rights in a traffic stop you've been watching too much television.

If you ARE being advised of your rights, its a little late. You most likely already have the cuffs on and are already under arrest.
No shit Sherlock, if the officer is slapping bracelets on you, you are under arrest.

A traffic stop has nothing to do with whether you have weapons, drugs, the neighbor
tied up in the trunk, etc, etc, … What purpose does a police officer have, when asking
these questions? So, whether you tell the police officer ‘none of your business’, ‘am I
being detained’, ‘can I go’, ‘just write the ticket’, ‘you have bad breath’ or what I suggested
in my previous post, you are telling the police officer the same thing, I am under no
obligation of law to answer your questions, other than what pertains to the reason for the
traffic stop. This provides that you don’t have outstanding warrants.

[Valorius]

This is what i do.

Upon getting pulled over, i get the paper work ready before cop comes up. I take out my LTCF, but do not give it to him, and keep it out of sight.

When he walks up, i hand him the stuff, i do not say anything about having a gun.

If he then asks, "any weapons in car?"

I simply hand him my LTCF then follow his instructions.

This minimizes the cops alarm bells as much as possible, and avoids any unnecessary verbal confrontations or back and forth.

[PA Traveler]

A traffic stop has nothing to do with whether you have weapons, drugs, the neighbor
tied up in the trunk, etc, etc, … What purpose does a police officer have, when asking
these questions? So, whether you tell the police officer ‘none of your business’, ‘am I
being detained’, ‘can I go’, ‘just write the ticket’, ‘you have bad breath’ or what I suggested
in my previous post, you are telling the police officer the same thing, I am under no
obligation of law to answer your questions, other than what pertains to the reason for the
traffic stop. This provides that you don’t have outstanding warrants.

That, was precisely my point. If you have a point (regarding the comments in red) you might want to make it understandable.

Thanks.

ETA: Better yet, to be clear regarding post number 5. Unless he's planning on arresting you there is no reason for you to be "read your rights" and he isn't going to do it. And he can ask you anything he wants any time he wants.

You can sit there silent if you want to, but you sure as hell have no obligation to answer.

Bottom line, your statement is wrong. Miranda warnings ("reading you your rights") have nothing to do with traffic stops. At this point in the interaction, they're irrelevant.

[Gun]

Bottom line, your statement is wrong. Miranda warnings ("reading you your rights") have nothing to do with traffic stops. At this point in the interaction, they're irrelevant.

Wrong, but you got it in the next part of this sentence. Any other
questions would be irrelevant, so not necessary, which implies my
post. Think about it.

[PA Traveler]

OK- I get your point that questions unrelated to the traffic infraction are (and well they should be should be) irrelevant to the interaction.

The point I am making is that the Miranda warning has nothing to do with the traffic stop (an 'investigatory detention', very similar to what's usually called a 'Terry stop') unless, and until the officer has decided to place the subject under arrest.

Once the officer has decided to effect the arrest, Miranda is needed. It is not needed, for example in a mere interaction, or in an investigatory interview. The officer may decide to write a traffic citation; he's not going to "read you your rights" when he does. He is alleging and stating to the court that he observed an infraction committed. If you simply pay the ticket you are in effect 'pleading guilty' to the allegation. If you contest it in traffic court the court may or may not find you guilty.

Once he determines that he has observed a crime that warrants taking you into custody, then he will perform the warning. Would you be wise not to say anything in either case. I say yes, you would.

[DaveM55]

OK- I get your point that questions unrelated to the traffic infraction are (and well they should be should be) irrelevant to the interaction.

The point I am making is that the Miranda warning has nothing to do with the traffic stop (an 'investigatory detention', very similar to what's usually called a 'Terry stop') unless, and until the officer has decided to place the subject under arrest.

Once the officer has decided to effect the arrest, Miranda is needed. It is not needed, for example in a mere interaction, or in an investigatory interview. The officer may decide to write a traffic citation; he's not going to "read you your rights" when he does. He is alleging and stating to the court that he observed an infraction committed. If you simply pay the ticket you are in effect 'pleading guilty' to the allegation. If you contest it in traffic court the court may or may not find you guilty.

Once he determines that he has observed a crime that warrants taking you into custody, then he will perform the warning. Would you be wise not to say anything in either case. I say yes, you would.

The 5th Amendment of the U.S. Bill of Rights, which protects U.S. citizens against self-incrimination, is the basis for our Miranda Rights. However, in order for Miranda to apply, two elements must be present:

1. the suspect is in police custody, AND
2. the suspect is being asked questions by police that are likely to invoke incriminating statements.

Both CUSTODY and INTERROGATION must be present before Miranda applies. A police officer does not have to advise a suspect of their Miranda rights when either of these elements are absent.

[Valorius]

Just as a citizen doesn't have to answer any questions either.

[Gun]

Both CUSTODY and INTERROGATION must be present before Miranda applies. A police officer does not have to advise a suspect of their Miranda rights when either of these elements are absent.

Exactly. As my first post infers, a way of saying, Don't bother asking any questions, that don't apply."

[DaveM55]

Exactly. As my first post infers, a way of saying, Don't bother asking any questions, that don't apply."

Your first post says an officer can't ask you any questions until they advise you of your rights which is NOT true.

Tell the officer that until he advises you of your rights, he can
not ask you any questions.

[39flathead]

Not to try to throw this thread off track, but here is an example of why you remain silent when being detained as part of a police fishing expedition:

I posted some months back about my 18 year old sister being harassed at a local Sheetz by a local cop.
She was sitting in her car and a local PO walked up and started asking her questions which she answered. What are you doing, is someone with you, you going out with some friends, picking anyone up, oh that's nice... this then turned into have you been drinking, doing anything illegal, may I search the car...
She didn't know what to do, the car was in my mom's name, fisherman calls mom and asks for permission to search or the car will be impounded until a warrant is issued...
Mom says fine then calls me.
I told her that's bullshit and to call him right back and tell him to impound it if that's what he thinks need be done, what reasonable doubt did he have that he felt warranted a search?
She wouldn't.
Nothing was found, but it took up 45 mins of my sisters life to "please" this fisherman's doubts that an 18 year old is actually just getting a cup of coffee and a pack of gum at Sheetz at 10pm.
I have since had both of them watch numerous videos regarding why the police are not your friend and why answering questions are not a good idea even if "you have nothing to hide".


Fast forward a few weeks ago, same Sheetz. I get gas, paid at the pump. I then pulled up in front of the store to go in so I was not blocking a pump.

On the way back out there is a local PD car sitting next to my truck.
As I'm getting in cop says "Sir, did you pay for your gas? I noticed you pulled away from the pump".
I knew he was talking to me, and ignored him, got in my truck and started it when his partner came to my door and gave the wind the window down hand gesture.
I put it down a few inches and sat there.
He says "didn't you hear us talking to you?"
I replied with, "I am not an 18 year old college student and therefore not a dumb ass and if I am not being detained I am going to leave now, if you have any questions about my purchases go ask someone in the store. Am I free to go?"
His reply was "well I just was asking since we have had people..."
Me: "I will not answer any further questions, am I free to go?
After looking at his partner who was now out of the car standing and looking at my inspection sticker "well I suppose you can go"
Me: "Please watch your arm so my mirror does not hit it"

And with that I left.


No mention of a firearm was made because I never let it get that far, as a matter of fact, they never even asked my name.
I would not ever tell them I have a gun, it is none of their business and I could give a rats ass if it would make them feel more comfortable if I did.
You know what would make me feel comfortable? Being left alone and not being harassed by power hungry control freaks with badges when I stop for gas and a Mountain Dew.

I was taught that respect is earned, I will not give anyone respect when I'm being harassed. Sitting in classes and then getting hired to be a cop does not automatically qualify someone to get my respect.


When I got home I shot out an Email to Sheetz telling them that I no longer will be spending money at any of their stores and that my job has me all over the state and I have never seen so many people being harassed by the police as they are at the Indiana stores.
The Indiana paper is filled with arrests in the Police Log section where the police "stopped" a person at the Sheetz on Wayne ave or 4th street.
Screw them and their fishing and screw Sheetz right along with them.

If it had come down to them asking to search my truck like it seems is their MO in Indiana, I would have told them NO and let them impound it if they wanted. Maybe if enough people would stop letting them get away with this shit it would stop once judges got tired of doling out warrants for no reason.