Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default handgun shot placement Consistency

    Hi All,

    Did anyone ever have a handgun that they just could not get consistent with.
    I have a sig 229 in 40 and i've been going to the range with it for about 2 months once a week and i just have no concistancy, as far as shot placement. i'm doing 10 rounds, checking target, i'm paying attention to my grip, could it be the ammo? about 400-450 rounds through it.

    I know some handguns are finicky, but h*ll At most a 12" grouping @ 50ft !

    I bought bulk (500 rnds of bvac) 180gr hst Ammo. bvac seems to have a good reputation,I also bought 250 of federal 165gr efmj, just to try differant ammo.. still no constancy.

    Any thoughts?

    I bought several used handguns, i shoot fine with them.
    My only other new handgun is a berretta 92fs, that shot great right out of the box ( for me anyways) 3" group at 50 feet, hopefully with practice i'll get it even tighter.

    I bought a sig thinking i was buying a cadillac. cost me 850$. I expected better than this,

    any suggestions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Ambridge, Pennsylvania
    (Beaver County)
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    I'd check different ammo and start back at 7 yards. Dial it in close then move out. I reload so I tailor my ammo to each gun. Ammo can be a real game changer for accuracy.
    www.Steelvalleycasting.com is your new home for coated bullets and custom ammo.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    Have you tried shooting it off a rest. This will help you determine if it's the firearm or the shooter. If the firearm is consistent off a rest then you can work on the shooter (the hard part) maybe adjust your grip, trigger finger placement, etc. If it is not consistent off the rest try additional different ammo.
    I have quite a few SIG's and they all can outshoot me with whatever ammo I feed them. I've also had a few high quality firearms that I could not get consistent results with no matter what I tried, although fellow shooters had great results with. I traded them off.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2007
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    Apolacon Township, Pennsylvania
    (Susquehanna County)
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    There's more to it than grip.

    Take your browser over to www.bullseyepistol.com and look around for the USAMTU Pistol Manual and read through the chapter about attaining minimum arc of movement. It covers grip, sight aligment and picture, trigger control and several other topics that affect your accuracy. While you're there look around for the shot analysis wheel.

    Let me give you one example you're probably not even thinking of with your grip. All the pressure from your fingers grasping the grip should be applied with the forefinger (that's the bird flipper) and the ring finger. Your pinky goes along for the ride but applies no pressure. That's because you cannot be consistent with the pressure and it will pull all your shots low to varying degrees.

    Also did you know that there is a natural point of aim? When you are safely on a firing line or after triple checking your pistol to be sure it's safe. Pick a target, face it in the stance you'd normally use, grasp your pistol, close your eye and raise your pistol to firing position and allow it to settle. Now open your eyes and observe the alignment of the pistol and target. If you're pointing left or right of the target move your feet to bring your whole body into the correct position instead of moving your arm. There is a similar technique for obtaining your natural sight alignment also. Same procedure only when you open your eyes observe the alignment of the sights. If the front sight is not centered left/right in the rear notch, twist the pistol in your hand to make the correction instead of "breaking" your wrist.

    Now you have the general idea go get 'em! And btw don't be concerned that this manual was written for bullseye competitors. What is presented here is basic and applies to all pistol shooting.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2010
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    Trenton, New Jersey
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    I noticed in your post that you mentioned you're checking your grip.

    Grip is not fundamental to accuracy. The fundamentals to accuracy are trigger press and front sight focus. You should be able to shoot accurately with a loose grip, firm grip, sloppy grip, cup-and-saucer grip, thumbs forward/pinky down, ect. As long as you're not gripping the gun so tightly that you're shaking, or so loosly that you can't impart smooth pressure to the trigger, grip is irrelevant to accuracy. A grip will only affect recoil control, which in turn affects front-sight tracking throughout the recoil and consistent return to your target. With a bad grip, you should be able to maintain the same accuracy as a proper grip, but not at the same pace.

    Front sight focus. Trigger press.

    Someone made the great suggestion of bringing the target in to 7 yards. I would say go even closer. There's nothing wrong with shooting a target at 3-5 yards. Slow fire on 2"-3" circles between 3-7 yards is a fantastic way to improve marksmanship fundamentals. Check out the Dot Torture drill here. Work a "ball and dummy" drill into your routine as well. Small flinches or anticipation can wreak havoc on consistency, and most people are way too egocentric to admit they've got it going on. So, make sure you're not anticipating by checking yourself with the ball and dummy drill.

    Finally, at home, work through a dry fire routine.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    Do you have any pistols that produce the recoil of the Sig is with the .40 S&W. 12" at 50' isn't terrible, by any means. If the shots are all over the target with no consistant pattern, then the barrel may not be locking up tightly, or the slide may be off fit a bit. Otherwise, it sounds like you are preparing for the recoil just a bit (anticipating), and this is very indicative of what you describe.

    50 feet is not really far enough to determine if the ammo is loaded hot or not unless it is way hot and way not. Try shooting it (40 or 50 rounds) at the backboard (use a target if you want to) as slow as you can, then put up a target. I would also let someone shoot it that you know shoots well with pistols that have a moderate recoil. Nothing wrong with having anticipated recoil as most of us have had it. If that is what it is, then it is easy to correct with a little mind control. If you are shooting other high recoil pistols well, then it may be a slide/barrel lock up issue.

    I had identical Taurus OSS DS 9mm's. One would bullseye and one would not, no matter waht I did. Taurus replaced the frame and the problem went away. It is possible to have a bad fit.
    BCM and Glock...for a bigger pile of 'cold dead hands' brass.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    I use to get frustrated with my Beretta PX4 storm sub compact. Couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it, despite being pretty proficient with all my other guns. I tried and tried, then had sights replaced with adjustable ones. Same problem with those, so one night I got pissed and knocked out both sights and convinced myself I'd go sightless and have a snag free gun - lol. A day later my senses came back and brought it to my gunshop, had my buddy put the original sights back on, and all of a sudden, I am fairly accurate with it ??? Not sure what finally did it - I'm sure a combination of getting use to this gun, and maybe playing around with sights a bit?
    I have heard on rare occassions of barrels being off center or defective, have you had that checked ?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    WOW
    THANK YOU ALL for such thoughtful suggestions.I could only quickly look through what you guys wrote this is the time of day where my time gets a little tight.but i didn't want to let it go the night without a thanks

    AGAIN THANKS

  9. #9
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    Smile Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    cruzans, that,s because i trained it for you. lol. red dog

  10. #10
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    Default Re: handgun shot placement Consistency

    Quote Originally Posted by red dog View Post
    cruzans, that,s because i trained it for you. lol. red dog
    magic touch!

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