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  1. #1
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    Default Why the 1911 sucks.

    This was originally posted HERE. All text is originally the work of GunNutMegger at Yankee Gun Nuts. For the record, I agree with every damn thing he said:




    I have said it before and I will end up saying it again: the 1911 an old design that is more trouble than it is worth. I don’t say it to be confrontational, or to draw attention to myself. I say it because I see my fellow shooters mindlessly parroting the gun equivalent of Chuck Norris Facts whenever the 1911 comes up in conversation, and I just don’t get it.

    I am not surprised that the 1911 is out of place in today’s world, and you shouldn’t be surprised either. What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

    (click the title for more)

    In the comment section of another blog, I summarized my skepticism of the 1911′s attributes thusly:

    It’s a 100-year old design. It needs tools to disassemble. It has unreliable magazines. It is finicky about ammo. And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry.

    In my original complaint, I forgot to mention the issue with slide-stop failures, and the whole internal extractor/external extractor situation. Either of which would be serious enough to kill any other design’s reputation in the shooting world.

    In response to some knee-jerk defenses of the 1911 from fanboys who drank too much John M. Browning Kool-Aid, who told me how all that I needed to do was buy a bunch of aftermarket parts and send the gun to a gunsmith, I added:

    Why does a reliable 1911 cost so much, and need so much gunsmithing?

    To be fair, I have some of the same complaints with the Walther PPK. Which is also a very old design, one which has been eclipsed by more modern designs which can do everything it does better.

    I mean, is it unreasonable to expect an affordably-priced pistol for defense to reliably feed hollowpoints out of the box? What Smith&Wesson pistol of recent manufacture won’t feed hollowpoints? What about Glock? SiG? Beretta? (I know Kahrs need to have some rounds through them before they are reliable, but it says that right in the owners manual). The shooting public would not accept an unreliable gun of a more modern design. But for some reason, the 1911 gets a pass for all of its flaws. “Just use hardball” is not a valid defense of the 1911 design, nor is it a valid strategy for selecting ammunition to defend yourself.

    And God help anyone who buys a used 1911. Everyone and their brother seems to think they are qualified to take a Dremel to their 1911. Guys who can’t change their own flat tire somehow have no reservations about playing doctor on their 1911. Who knows what wacky “custom” parts have been put into the gun because someone read about it on the interweb tubes?

    It was the best military sidearm of its day, and for a long time afterward. I do not dispute that. But its time has long passed. And a military sidearm is not the same thing as a handgun for personal defense.

    Leave aside the lack of reliability with hollowpoints, and the other problems. The 1911 is too big to conceal. And the smaller versions are less reliable due to the shorter slide-travel and a tendency to limp-wrist the gun.

    Some people protest by saying that the 1911 is the best gun for defense, because the most “realistic” shooting sports are heavily populated with 1911 users. And everyone knows that you should train like you fight, so that you will fight like you train, right? Well, that would be a more convincing argument if those “realistic” shooting sports didn’t have intricate rules that somehow disqualify most non-1911 designs. Purely by coincidence, right? Sure, they come up with semi-plausible rationales for some of those rules, but there is no way to disguise the overall bias towards the 1911.

    I don’t hate 1911 fans. I merely pity them, because they are victims of marketing hype and groupthink, the lemmings of the gun world. And if someone sinks thousands of dollars into a 1911 (and isn’t using it to compete for money), well they are just gullible. Like the kind of people who pay money for tapwater in a bottle.

    So what if Jeff Cooper liked the only handgun in use when he was in the military? It’s not like he had a choice of other handguns to use. And, on a related note, Jeff Cooper has a reputation that exceeds his accomplishments. The best information that I can find shows that he spent the battle of Guadalcanal as the training officer on Gen. Vandegrift’s staff. Not leading a platoon. Not on the line, pulling a trigger. And his coy evasions when asked about his real-world experience with gunfighting are revealing, if one cares to view them objectively. (If you have documentation about Cooper’s real-world experience, please drop me a line. I am happy to revise my opinion.) I have no doubt that he was qualified to teach people how to shoot on a range. Beyond that, a grain of salt is required. I prefer to get my advice on defense & gunfighting from men who have actually been there & done that; Massad Ayoob, Jim Cirillo, etc. Am I a qualifications snob? No, I am an results snob.

    Ok, got it out of my system.
    The Army was the biggest mistake I've ever been proud to make.

  2. #2
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    Lightbulb Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    1911's don't suck, they're one of the best designs ever created. They're also a big part of American history. My uncles used them in Vietnam.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    Whatever happened to the idea of "to each their own?"
    Life has a melody.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinHEMI View Post
    Whatever happened to the idea of "to each their own?"
    The idea of trolling trumps that
    The Army was the biggest mistake I've ever been proud to make.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by cake0110 View Post
    The idea of trolling trumps that
    LULZ I figured as much. :P

    In that case...

    Life has a melody.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    while at first i was thinking this guy is full of it. i do tend to agree with you on some points most problems with a 1911 are owner induced. i do not think all the addons are nessery.

    but as far as design goes they have been trying to beat it for 100 years the only pistol that comes close is the browning h-p.

    what other gun design that old is still being used?

    most sporting rifles use the 98 mauser action
    lets not forget the browning machine guns
    even the gatling gun that was in use in the late 1860's is still around.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    Opinions and assholes, everybody has one.
    The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by cake0110 View Post
    This was originally posted HERE. All text is originally the work of GunNutMegger at Yankee Gun Nuts. For the record, I agree with every damn thing he said:




    I have said it before and I will end up saying it again: the 1911 an old design that is more trouble than it is worth. I don’t say it to be confrontational, or to draw attention to myself. I say it because I see my fellow shooters mindlessly parroting the gun equivalent of Chuck Norris Facts whenever the 1911 comes up in conversation, and I just don’t get it.

    I am not surprised that the 1911 is out of place in today’s world, and you shouldn’t be surprised either. What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

    (click the title for more)

    In the comment section of another blog, I summarized my skepticism of the 1911′s attributes thusly:

    It’s a 100-year old design. It needs tools to disassemble. It has unreliable magazines. It is finicky about ammo. And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry.

    In my original complaint, I forgot to mention the issue with slide-stop failures, and the whole internal extractor/external extractor situation. Either of which would be serious enough to kill any other design’s reputation in the shooting world.

    In response to some knee-jerk defenses of the 1911 from fanboys who drank too much John M. Browning Kool-Aid, who told me how all that I needed to do was buy a bunch of aftermarket parts and send the gun to a gunsmith, I added:

    Why does a reliable 1911 cost so much, and need so much gunsmithing?

    To be fair, I have some of the same complaints with the Walther PPK. Which is also a very old design, one which has been eclipsed by more modern designs which can do everything it does better.

    I mean, is it unreasonable to expect an affordably-priced pistol for defense to reliably feed hollowpoints out of the box? What Smith&Wesson pistol of recent manufacture won’t feed hollowpoints? What about Glock? SiG? Beretta? (I know Kahrs need to have some rounds through them before they are reliable, but it says that right in the owners manual). The shooting public would not accept an unreliable gun of a more modern design. But for some reason, the 1911 gets a pass for all of its flaws. “Just use hardball” is not a valid defense of the 1911 design, nor is it a valid strategy for selecting ammunition to defend yourself.

    And God help anyone who buys a used 1911. Everyone and their brother seems to think they are qualified to take a Dremel to their 1911. Guys who can’t change their own flat tire somehow have no reservations about playing doctor on their 1911. Who knows what wacky “custom” parts have been put into the gun because someone read about it on the interweb tubes?

    It was the best military sidearm of its day, and for a long time afterward. I do not dispute that. But its time has long passed. And a military sidearm is not the same thing as a handgun for personal defense.

    Leave aside the lack of reliability with hollowpoints, and the other problems. The 1911 is too big to conceal. And the smaller versions are less reliable due to the shorter slide-travel and a tendency to limp-wrist the gun.

    Some people protest by saying that the 1911 is the best gun for defense, because the most “realistic” shooting sports are heavily populated with 1911 users. And everyone knows that you should train like you fight, so that you will fight like you train, right? Well, that would be a more convincing argument if those “realistic” shooting sports didn’t have intricate rules that somehow disqualify most non-1911 designs. Purely by coincidence, right? Sure, they come up with semi-plausible rationales for some of those rules, but there is no way to disguise the overall bias towards the 1911.

    I don’t hate 1911 fans. I merely pity them, because they are victims of marketing hype and groupthink, the lemmings of the gun world. And if someone sinks thousands of dollars into a 1911 (and isn’t using it to compete for money), well they are just gullible. Like the kind of people who pay money for tapwater in a bottle.

    So what if Jeff Cooper liked the only handgun in use when he was in the military? It’s not like he had a choice of other handguns to use. And, on a related note, Jeff Cooper has a reputation that exceeds his accomplishments. The best information that I can find shows that he spent the battle of Guadalcanal as the training officer on Gen. Vandegrift’s staff. Not leading a platoon. Not on the line, pulling a trigger. And his coy evasions when asked about his real-world experience with gunfighting are revealing, if one cares to view them objectively. (If you have documentation about Cooper’s real-world experience, please drop me a line. I am happy to revise my opinion.) I have no doubt that he was qualified to teach people how to shoot on a range. Beyond that, a grain of salt is required. I prefer to get my advice on defense & gunfighting from men who have actually been there & done that; Massad Ayoob, Jim Cirillo, etc. Am I a qualifications snob? No, I am an results snob.

    Ok, got it out of my system.


    It’s a 100-year old design. It needs tools to disassemble. It has unreliable magazines. It is finicky about ammo. And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry.
    It's been around for 100 years because it works. I don't need tools to field strip it. All my magazines are reliable. It feeds anything I put in it. And it's safer than any gun with no safeties. It conceals easier than any Glock could.

    I'm not going to bother countering all the points made in the article, because I'm tired. But it wouldn't be hard to do. People who knock the 1911, are basing their opinions on the guns Colt manufactured in the 1970's and 1980's. Most of those guns were complete garbage, and wouldn't run right out of the box, so needed smithing to work. Because of that, 1911s still have the reputation for not being reliable out of the box, or needing a break in period. No 1911 I've ever had, or my boyfriend, or my brother, or anyone I know has ever needed to be taken to a gunsmith to make it work right. My Springfield worked perfectly from day one.

    To each their own, I guess.
    Last edited by mollymayhem82; December 27th, 2011 at 07:00 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by cake0110 View Post
    This was originally posted HERE. The 1911 is too big to conceal. And the smaller versions are less reliable due to the shorter slide-travel and a tendency to limp-wrist the gun.
    Why would someone tend to limp-wrist a short barreled 1911 and not another gun? If you cant hold a gun properly, you should put it down, and that includes EVERY model.

    Also, I feed handloaded hollow points through my kimber 1911 with no issue............john browning is a dick for designing this stupid thing

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why the 1911 sucks.

    The reason the 1911 is so popular in the shooting sports and in real life is simple:it's one of the easiest,if not the easiest gun to hit with quickly and accurately...period.No other gun has the ergonomics,short consistent trigger pull and natural pointing ability as the 1911.And modern high quality guns are as reliable as any thing else out there.As far as safety goes,I think if you look into it,there are far more accidents with decocking guns and glocks than there are with 1911's.And even full size guns are easily conceled due to the flatness of the design.

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