LTCF for non-resident

[rrc]

Hi all,

There are pretty clear instructions on this website an others about applying for an LTCF when you are a resident. Can somebody point me to some instructions for how to apply for an LTCF as a non-resident? Can it be done without a personal meeting?

I ask because for the last 5+ years I've actually lived in Europe, but I still have family in PA which I visit on occassion. Before moving here I did live in PA my whole life. I'd like to be able to purchase a firearm and carry it in my vehicle legally while I am in town. An in-person meeting requirement would be tricky because I'd have to wait until my next visit and do it then.

Any info you guys can provide or point me to would be most welcome. Thanks!

[soberbyker]

Now you have to apply in person, this change occured back in March of 2011.

Not sure about non US residents abilty to get one at all.

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[Statkowski]

Short answer - You can't. You can't get an LTCF, and you can't purchase a firearm. As an expatriate you apparently have no "Second Amendment rights" in the country of your birth and citizenship.

If you were a resident of Pennsylvania, you could get an LTCF. If you had a similar license or permit from another state, you could get an LTCF. You're not a resident of Pennsylvania, nor do you have a similar license or permit from another state, so the LTCF is out-of-bounds for you.

You can't purchase a firearm because the ATF requires you to enter your state of residency on the Form 4473. As someone residing outside of the 50 states, you can't complete the form, and thus cannot purchase a firearm.

Your attention is directed to the case of Hodgkins v. Gonzales (http://saf.org/legal.action/texas.ex....complaint.pdf), a case addressing your issue.

[knight0334]

Short answer - You can't. You can't get an LTCF, and you can't purchase a firearm. As an expatriate you apparently have no "Second Amendment rights" in the country of your birth and citizenship.

If you were a resident of Pennsylvania, you could get an LTCF. If you had a similar license or permit from another state, you could get an LTCF. You're not a resident of Pennsylvania, nor do you have a similar license or permit from another state, so the LTCF is out-of-bounds for you.

You can't purchase a firearm because the ATF requires you to enter your state of residency on the Form 4473. As someone residing outside of the 50 states, you can't complete the form, and thus cannot purchase a firearm.

Your attention is directed to the case of Hodgkins v. Gonzales (http://saf.org/legal.action/texas.ex....complaint.pdf), a case addressing your issue.

I was just going to address that issue.

Your residency and citizenship plays a major factor in whether you can possess/receive a gun in the United States.

[mrjam2jab]

S

If you were a resident of Pennsylvania, you could get an LTCF. If you had a similar license or permit from another state, you could get an LTCF. You're not a resident of Pennsylvania, nor do you have a similar license or permit from another state, so the LTCF is out-of-bounds for you.

.

I was just going to address that issue.

Your residency and citizenship plays a major factor in whether you can possess/receive a gun in the United States.

I get the "can't purchase" thing...but what would disqualify him from a LTCF? PA UFA doesn't say anything one must be a US resident. It does say a alien here illegally can not...

[tl_3237]

I get the "can't purchase" thing...but what would disqualify him from a LTCF? PA UFA doesn't say anything one must be a US resident. It does say a alien here illegally can not...

18 Pa CSA 6109(e)(1)(xiv) An individual who is prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm under the statutes of the United States.

Even if he could get a LTCF he can't purchase or be loaned a firearm to carry.

[HiredGoon]

How would he comply with having a license or permit from his home (USA) state if he lives in a foreign country?

ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

[tl_3237]

How would he comply with having a license or permit from his home (USA) state if he lives in a foreign country?

ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

He's not a resident of another state so it wouldn't apply.

[soberbyker]

I was trying to see if I could find any state that would issue a license/permit to a non USA resident, so far I haven't, but I found an interesting Wiki, not sure how true it is of course but it's an interesting read for sure.

Here's a few excerpts:

In an argument against gun control, the National Center for Policy Analysis, a non-profit conservative think tank, reported the following statistics:[141]

• New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later the murder rate was up 46% and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled.
• In 1968, Hawaii imposed a series of increasingly harsh measures and its murder rate tripled from a low of 2.4 per 100,000 in 1968 to 7.2 by 1977.
• In 1976, Washington, D.C. enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134% while the national murder rate has dropped 2%.

Among the 15 states with the highest homicide rates, 10 have restrictive or very restrictive gun laws.[143]
Twenty percent of U.S. homicides occur in four cities with just 6% of the population—New York, Chicago, Detroit, and Washington, D.C.—and each has or, in the cases of Detroit (until 2001) and D.C. (2008) had, a requirement for a licence on private handguns or an effective outright ban (in the case of Chicago).[144]

The issue of firearms has, at times, taken a high-profile position in United States culture and politics.[49] Michael Bouchard, Assistant Director/Field Operations of ATF, estimates that 5,000 gun shows take place each year in the United States.[50] Incidents of gun violence in 'gun-free' school zones have ignited debate[51] involving gun politics in the United States.
Support for gun control in America has been steadily dropping. Currently, the American public strongly opposes attempts to ban gun ownership, and is divided on attempts to limit gun ownership. A 2011 Gallup poll revealed that 26% of the population supported a total ban on handguns — the lowest level since the poll was first taken in 1959 (when support for a total ban was 60% of the population). This same poll revealed that 43% of Americans in 2011 preferred more restrictive gun laws, compared to 78% when the question was first asked in the 1990 version of the poll.[52] A 2009 CNN poll found even lower levels of support for gun laws: in this poll, only 39% favored more restrictive laws. The poll indicates that the drop in support (compared to 2001 polls) came from self-identified Independents, with levels of opposition among Democrats and Republicans remaining consistent.[53]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics#United_States

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[press1280]

Hi all,

There are pretty clear instructions on this website an others about applying for an LTCF when you are a resident. Can somebody point me to some instructions for how to apply for an LTCF as a non-resident? Can it be done without a personal meeting?

I ask because for the last 5+ years I've actually lived in Europe, but I still have family in PA which I visit on occassion. Before moving here I did live in PA my whole life. I'd like to be able to purchase a firearm and carry it in my vehicle legally while I am in town. An in-person meeting requirement would be tricky because I'd have to wait until my next visit and do it then.

Any info you guys can provide or point me to would be most welcome. Thanks!

I think you're out of luck with a PA LTC but you may be able to get a Maine or possibly NH permit permit. I recall on another board that a Canadian citizen was able to get those two permits and I just glanced over Maine's requirements and I don't see where being a US citizen is required(just a birth certificate). You will need a training class for Maine however. Check handgunlaw.us under non-resident permits.
As far as purchasing a handgun, that would also be problematic, but if your family has an extra one they could maybe loan it to you to carry.
Oh and if you're in Europe because you're in the military, then there's other permits you could also get.