Kel Tec Shotgun

[Valorius]

kel-tec's fit/finish might not be exceptional, but quality i don't believe is an issue.
my p-11 is great, and i hear they also have exceptional service.

all that really matters is that when you want it to go bang, it doesn't click.
right?

I got rid of my Kel Tec P32 because of it's poor quality control and repeated/various issues. The Ruger LCP i replaced it with is basically a far more refined and well built version of the same gun, in a bigger caliber. Ruger took Kel Tec's design, and perfected it. Because of actual hands on ownership, i seriously doubt i'll ever own another Kel Tec again.

On the other hand, i've had 3 Benelli M1 variants (Beretta 1200FP, Beretta 1201FP, and Benelli M1S90), and they all worked absolutely 100% flawlessly. Clean, dirty, bird shot, buck shot, slugs, doesn't matter. Flawless. (Though a new M1 may need some breaking in to fire light bird shot, once broken in they fire that fine too). My M1 is the one gun i truly never worry about cleaning. I know it is going to work, period.

@ Streaker: I submit to you that if they had put the proper amount of thought into the KSG, it would be a semi auto, not a pump. If this thing was a semi, it really would be something pretty ground breaking. It would also be a lot easier to justify it's high price tag too. It would be fair to say i hold it's ancient and playing it safe pump action design against it.

Seriously, if one wants a pump for defense, how does one choose this $800 KSG over a Remington 870 Police that is half the price, and which is assembled by specially trained personnel on a special line in a special factory to far higher quality control standards than Remington's normal 870 guns? Shrug. To each their own, as i said, as a toy why not...but as a defensive arm? I don't see it.

[streaker69]

@ Streaker: I submit to you that if they had put the proper amount of thought into the KSG, it would be a semi auto, not a pump. If this thing was a semi, it really would be something pretty ground breaking.

I think the complexity of making a dual tube feeder like this into a semi would put them beyond the market they're trying to hit, and the time frame they're trying to hit it. Maybe the next version will be Semi, if they can possibly license a gas recoil system from a manufacturer that currently has it perfected.

I do like the idea of this. I was talking to the wife about it earlier this evening, and when you look around, there really isn't anything all that new or innovative in the firearms market. Just re-hashes of old styles, with slight improvements. This is kind of a step beyond, the big selling point for me is the ability to change ammo types quickly. Something that even Benelli cannot do. With a flick of a lever you can change from slugs to .00 buck or whatever you have loaded. You can also flick it in the middle to empty the chamber without loading another round and do a manual load of something special.

It's an interesting concept and I really hope they get the bugs worked out.

[Valorius]

They do actually make revolving magazine tubes for Benelli and most other tube fed guns.

They hold something like 20 or more rounds, and automatically cycle to the next tube as one tube empties. The versions i've seen seem a bit flimsy, and are clearly made for 3 gun games and such, but with further refinement, you might see field worthy versions in the future.

Of course the problem with any high capacity shotgun is weight. All those shells weigh a lot. My M1 has a 26" factory ported barrel with breaching/spreader choke and 10 shot mag tube. When fully loaded it's weight is almost doubled.

[streaker69]

They do actually make revolving magazine tubes for Benelli and most other tube fed guns.

They hold something like 20 or more rounds, and automatically cycle to the next tube as one tube empties. The versions i've seen seem a bit flimsy, and are clearly made for 3 gun games and such, but with further refinement, you might see field worthy versions in the future.

Of course the problem with any high capacity shotgun is weight. All those shells weigh a lot. My M1 has a 26" barrel with breaching/spreader choke and 10 shot mag tube. When fully loaded it's weight is almost doubled.

Since this is in the Bullpup format, I think that weight might not be as noticeable since you don't have so much weight so far out away from you. The over all length is only 26.1", so that puts the weight closer to your body. Plus, and I think you're one of the ones that dislike polymer, but since they're using polymer that's bringing the curbweight of the shotgun down some. I think it's only 6.9lbs empty.

I know my shotgun with 7 up the pipe is fairly heavy, not something I'd want to go walking through the neighborhood with without a sling.

[Emptymag]

Benelli-schmenelli... when they make a shotgun that holds 15 shells in a package the length of my arm have them gimme a call!

[Ronin]

They do actually make revolving magazine tubes for Benelli and most other tube fed guns.

They hold something like 20 or more rounds, and automatically cycle to the next tube as one tube empties. The versions i've seen seem a bit flimsy, and are clearly made for 3 gun games and such, but with further refinement, you might see field worthy versions in the future.

Of course the problem with any high capacity shotgun is weight. All those shells weigh a lot. My M1 has a 26" factory ported barrel with breaching/spreader choke and 10 shot mag tube. When fully loaded it's weight is almost doubled.

It's also over a foot longer than the KSG. All that weight out front with a revolving magazine only adds to the unwieldy-ness. The appeal of the KSG is that it is a small, compact package capable of delivering 14+1 rounds of your choosing. From a reliability standpoint, it's a pump. You don't get any simpler or more reliable when it comes to shotguns. I have a Mossberg 590A1 and a 930SPX. The 930 has never given me any problems, but I still keep the 590 loaded for HD, just in case. Keltec knew what they were doing by introducing a pump gun rather than a semi-auto. They are not known for high quality right out of the box so a semi-auto would be a hard sell. Not to mention the R&D required up front would be costly. Give them time, however, and you will most likely see a semi-auto KSG.

I've had an RFB for over a year. It's never given me any problems and I wouldn't hesitate to take it into battle if necessary. My EDC is a PF9. Out of the box it has always gone bang when I wanted it to. I'm already on a waiting list (or two) for a KSG. I see a huge market for this shotgun and I'm willing to trust them to get it right. And even if they don't the first go round they will keep fixing it for free until they do.

[Connal]

Benelli-schmenelli... when they make a shotgun that holds 15 shells in a package the length of my arm have them gimme a call!

I have to go with this one. 15 round of buck. No matter which way you say it, that doesn't sound bad. Now, put this together with a semi auto function, I can see this being a very nice home defense weapon. Small enough to traverse hallways and corners. Enough buckshot to remove a stump. These are things that I think are going to make this a good shotty for home defense.

Then, you factor in the ability for birdshot on one side, buck on the other. Or, buck/slugs, bird/flachette, the possibilities are nearly endless.

I think the first revision will need a few minor tweaks. Second revision will be great, around the same time it won't be the new kid on the block. And, I can see used ones in the not to distant future going for around the $400-$500 range.

From what I have seen on that, the information I have gathered, and the logistics of it. I would have no problem with something like that at the side of the bed.

[fallenleader]

that police 870 sounds wonderful.

but it is still hard to beat a new concept. kel-tec has my best wishes and i hope to see it evolve into a semi, even a full auto would be nice.
and price will go down, eventually, no?

ronin's post above me sums kel-tec up pretty well. p-11 carry gun. it bangs.

[jackmonster1]

a quick look online has shown these going from $580-799. shop the deal. at $580 shipped, seems like a good deal to me. Put a stubby vertical grip at the front of the slide to eliminate any short stroke issues, and offset light mount and eyes open optic..

your talking about one mean CQB weapon. sure it'd take a little practice switching from your reg. tac shotty, but at that length with 15rds capacity its impossible to beat.

Defiantly added to my wish list.

[Valorius]

It's also over a foot longer than the KSG. All that weight out front with a revolving magazine only adds to the unwieldy-ness. The appeal of the KSG is that it is a small, compact package capable of delivering 14+1 rounds of your choosing. From a reliability standpoint, it's a pump. You don't get any simpler or more reliable when it comes to shotguns. I have a Mossberg 590A1 and a 930SPX. The 930 has never given me any problems, but I still keep the 590 loaded for HD, just in case. Keltec knew what they were doing by introducing a pump gun rather than a semi-auto. They are not known for high quality right out of the box so a semi-auto would be a hard sell. Not to mention the R&D required up front would be costly. Give them time, however, and you will most likely see a semi-auto KSG.

I've had an RFB for over a year. It's never given me any problems and I wouldn't hesitate to take it into battle if necessary. My EDC is a PF9. Out of the box it has always gone bang when I wanted it to. I'm already on a waiting list (or two) for a KSG. I see a huge market for this shotgun and I'm willing to trust them to get it right. And even if they don't the first go round they will keep fixing it for free until they do.

My EDC was a Kel Tec P32 with CT laser for a few months, a couple years ago.

Honestly, i could not get rid of it quickly enough (since replaced by a LCP with CT, then re-replaced by a Kahr PM9 with CT).

I do like some kel tec products, namely the SUB-2000. But what i really like about the SUB-2000 is it's very reasonable price. If the KSG was $400 (or if the SUB-2000 was $800), i would have a much different view on both of them. (I still wouldn't knowingly take any Kel Tec into combat though).

Kel Tec is the one that put themselves into the same market as Benelli, Beretta, and other top end auto riot guns. Not me.

Let's face it, the reason we have not seen many high capacity shot guns is for the reason i already mentioned- weight.

In a foot patrol or hunting situation, take a KSG and put 15rds into it, and i would still rather have a 6 or 7rd conventional pump or auto because they have plenty of firepower, but are much easier to walk with.

Put me in a static position, and i'd rather have the longer barrel of a long mag tube semi auto, like my benelli has. Because it is true that my 10+1 M1 has a very long 26" barrel which makes it unwieldy as a mobile close quarters platform...but that same 26" barrel also gives it tremendous hitting power, range, and penetration.

In the end, it's all trade offs...but even if these were identical guns, one is a Benelli, and one is a Kel Tec.