question about ccw

[ungawa]

if someone had arms the size of arnolds i would just run away haha
i was just thinking about a one on one situation. not 5+ guys against me.

You have a duty to retreat, IF you can do so safely, when faced with an unarmed opponent in public places. You said you would run from Arnold, why not run from a normal guy?

You have to convince a jury that a reasonable person, in your position, would be in fear for their life or serious bodilly harm (or kidnapping or rape etc.). I don't spend a lot of time in court but I really don't think most jurors are going to give you the benefit of the doubt for killing somebody your own size over threating to punch you or even giving you a smack in the chops. Unfortunately, I think most people would expect you should either defend yourself with your hands or dissengage.

I am not a lawyer.

[jeepdude90]

yea retreat is probably the best option if the person is unarmed. that way no legal matter is involved. right?

You have a duty to retreat, IF you can do so safely, when faced with an unarmed opponent in public places. You said you would run from Arnold, why not run from a normal guy?

You have to convince a jury that a reasonable person, in your position, would be in fear for their life or serious bodilly harm (or kidnapping or rape etc.). I don't spend a lot of time in court but I really don't think most jurors are going to give you the benefit of the doubt for killing somebody your own size over threating to punch you or even giving you a smack in the chops. Unfortunately, I think most people would expect you should either defend yourself with your hands or dissengage.

I am not a lawyer.

[XACEX]

this is the best answer i can give you, that someone here gave to me once upon a time:

Just assume that drawing your weapon = automatic life imprisonment for you. If its still worth it in the situation you're in, draw. If it isnt, dont.

[mdcmn7]

Ok, how about the same scenario but standing behind me are my two small children.

I would gladly take a hit on the chin, and am rather confident in my H to H skills. I would attempt to stop him with no lethal force initially, but if that attacker makes me think he is going to harm my children, then there is a significant disparity of force, I fear for the lives of my children, and I would engage

Life in prison but my children get to live = fine in my book

[knight0334]

Be mindful that in PA the wording is "serious bodily injury". A mere scuff wouldn't be justification for deadly force.

[Hawk]

I'm glad to see the sensible responses posted in this thread so far. As little as a year ago the responses would have been very different. I suppose either we are smarter now or those members who use to say shoot first ask questions later are no longer here. Gives me hope!

[gunner_m198]

Also remember the majority of fights will end up on the ground. Do you want to be rolling around with a loaded weapon on your hip? Do you carry in a holster with some sort of retainment capibility or not? I personaly don't so the idea of a fist fight is very unsettling, and one I have thought about alot.

In my opinion I would have to try and disengage, but should I find myself on the ground in a wrestling match I'm going to need to secure my weapon, do I use it or just secure it? So many different situations that I can't give a shoot or not shoot answer.

I guess really it is a lose lose situation, you can't let someone take your weapon in a fight on the ground. So either you better be able to knock them out without going to the ground or disengage, because if it becomes a drawn out ground fight you almost need to use your weapon or risk losing it. I can't see being aquitted of murder for shooting in a 1 on 1 fist fight.

To say you needed to secure your weapon they are going to ask why would you fight someone with that "thing" on you! I'm no lawyer, just my $10.55 post. Im long winded sorry.

[zackattack784]

Another thing to throw into the mix. Drawing your weapon is not deadly force. It is force, and you need to justify drawing your weapon, but you don't need to fulfill the same standard that you would if you were to pull the trigger. Obviously drawing your weapon is a serious matter and you damn well be able to justify it, but it's not deadly force.

[Greywolf]

so ive done a little research on my question and havent really gotten a solid answer. if someone threatens to fight you and or throws a punch at you, does that fall under bodily harm?

You haven't gotten a solid answer because you haven't asked a solid question.

"Fight" implies two people engaged in combat. If both agree to "fight," the legal term is mutual combat, and once you engage in mutual combat (meaning you agree to duke it out in the alley behind the bar) you may not, under any circumstances, then use a deadly weapon and claim self defense.

Nobody can "threaten to fight" you. They can threaten to assault you, but if you don't agree to fight ... there is no fight. There is an assault. If someone threatens to assault you, they have broken the law and can be arrested and charged. As noted above, if they actually throw a punch, it escalates from assault to assault and battery.

The law provides that if force is used against you, you may use force to defend yourself. If the level of force used against you is such that you fear death or serious bodily harm from the assault, you may legally use deadly force to defend yourself.

Defending yourself against an assault is NOT the same thing as mutual combat. If you say "Sorry, I don't want to fight you" and try to walk away, and the assailant attacks you anyway, that is NOT mutual combat and self defense is lawful.

[Greywolf]

Drawing your weapon is not deadly force.

Are you certain? I believe drawing a firearm IS considered using deadly force, even if you don't pull the trigger.