Colt 1991A1 upgrade suggestions...

[zachomega]

As the title suggests, I have a Colt 1991A1 that I'd like to perform some cheap upgrades to. I'm mainly looking to improve the trigger pull which is kind of bad.

I have already had sights installed on it which was a big improvement.

I was reading last night about replacing the sear spring assembly with a Cylinder & Slide part for 7.50$ seemed to do a lot for trigger pull.

I also saw a Cylinder & Slide trigger pull reduction kit for the 80 series for around 50$.

I don't want to waste money on kits that will do very little to help improve the gun.

So suppose you had 100$ to use on upgrading a stock 1991A1, how would you spend it and why?

-Zach
P.S. Did Colt really use a plastic trigger on the 1991A1? It sure looks like it. That is going to have to be replaced with something of the metal family. Any suggestions? As it is, the trigger has a lot of vertical play.

[Gun]

Did you strip the frame, polish the trigger bow, polish the guides in the frame where the trigger bow travels, deburr the cutout in the frame where the trigger sits, polish the contact points of the disconnector, etc, etc, first, to see if the trigger pull felt smoother.

Also, if you put in a new sear spring, you need to adjust the sear and disconnectors leaves for correct tension, and you will need a trigger pull weight gauge to do that.


Some things to think about.

[harold63]

Did you strip the frame, polish the trigger bow, polish the guides in the frame where the trigger bow travels, deburr the cutout in the frame where the trigger sits, polish the contact points of the disconnector, etc, etc, first, to see if the trigger pull felt smoother.

Also, if you put in a new sear spring, you need to adjust the sear and disconnectors leaves for correct tension, and you will need a trigger pull weight gauge to do that.


Some things to think about.

Do all of this ^^^ before you buy parts. The spring that is in it can be adjusted, some. A light, smooth trigger with a clean break makes a ton of difference in accuracy.

[Wilson Guy]

I wouldn't go cheap on this project. $110.00 gets you a machined hammer, sear and disconnector from Wilson Combat. Then have good smith put them in.

[Lycanthrope]

If the trigger is crisp and you've polished the trigger bow, the first place to start on a budget would be springs. Drop in a 19lb mainspring and adjust the center leaf on the sear spring to about 12 oz. This alone will make most people happy and can get you down near 3lbs with a decent setup.

19lb mainsprings will usually light rifle primers and the guns will run with 8 oz on the center leaf so these mods aren't very risky at this point.

(It is also as far as I'd recommend you going until you've done a lot of research. Messing around with the left leaf tension that controls the seat pressure can help trigger pull, but is also the point where the gun will eventually start to have hammer follow/double/go full auto.)

You will, however, need to learn to safety check the gun and there are various sites that detail this. The most important part will be checking for "hammer follow" by dropping the slide with the slide stop on an empty chamber. When doing this on my own guns, I also push the gun rapidly forward to accelerate the slide further. If the hammer falls at all, then the gun is unsafe.

If you have a lot of trigger creep or the group is exceptionally heavy, you might have to get a new sear/hammer group. Personally, I wouldn't go with anything but a Cylinder and Slide group or one of these:

http://www.1911store.com/tunedtrigge...proseries.aspx

Those will get you in the 2lb range, but don't expect any trigger group to be drop in. If the sear profile does not match the one you are replacing you are going to have to refit or replace the thumb safety. Also, trigger that has an occasional slight creep can also be cause by loose fitted trigger bow (that has a lot of play in the frame) and/or loose/worn hammer and sear pins.

Most aftermarket triggers are decent, but may need fitted. That means you'll need to gently file the top and bottom of the trigger shoe until you can put it into the frame. I wipe the shoe across a file one way and then the other....alternating top and then the bottom until it fits. You'll also have to check if the trigger bow catches on the magazines. Don't rule out plastic triggers, the STI offerings will run forever.

Lycangetyoustartedthrope

[Gun]

If the trigger is crisp and you've polished the trigger bow, the first place to start on a budget would be springs. Drop in a 19lb mainspring and adjust the center leaf on the sear spring to about 12 oz. This alone will make most people happy and can get you down near 3lbs with a decent setup.

19lb mainsprings will usually light rifle primers and the guns will run with 8 oz on the center leaf so these mods aren't very risky at this point.

(It is also as far as I'd recommend you going until you've done a lot of research. Messing around with the left leaf tension that controls the sear pressure can help trigger pull, but is also the point where the gun will eventually start to have hammer follow/double/go full auto.)



Lycangetyoustartedthrope

If you adjust the middle leaf (disconnector) to 12 oz, now adjust the left leaf so that the pull is doubled, 24 oz, then this should be fine.

I would do this before replacing any parts.

[zachomega]

Thank you all for your input so far! Deburring will definitely be the first thing I do.

With regard to measuring any sort of tension on the leafs of the spring, I just clamp the spring down and use a trigger pull gauge to gauge how much tension is on the spring?

Any suggestions on a good digital trigger pull gauge? I wanted to get one anyway to be able to judge how the work is going from start to finish.

As for the plastic trigger, I might not have been bothered by it except it just has so much play inside of the frame. I will replace it if nothing else so that it isn't moving up and down.

Definitely a will do on the mainspring. Does anybody prefer the arched mainspring housing over the flat?

Also, unrelated to trigger pull, is there any advantage to a full length recoil spring guide? Any disadvantages?

Can I increase the recoil spring to reduce felt recoil? If so, what would be a range of recoil springs that would be considered acceptable before I'd start running into trouble with the gun cycling? I plan on mostly using WWB which if memory serves me is 230 grain.

In the end, I'd like a really nice shooter (I will not be carrying this gun ever).

-Zach

[Lycanthrope]

Thank you all for your input so far! Deburring will definitely be the first thing I do.

With regard to measuring any sort of tension on the leafs of the spring, I just clamp the spring down and use a trigger pull gauge to gauge how much tension is on the spring?


Any suggestions on a good digital trigger pull gauge? I wanted to get one anyway to be able to judge how the work is going from start to finish.

As for the plastic trigger, I might not have been bothered by it except it just has so much play inside of the frame. I will replace it if nothing else so that it isn't moving up and down.

Definitely a will do on the mainspring. Does anybody prefer the arched mainspring housing over the flat?

Also, unrelated to trigger pull, is there any advantage to a full length recoil spring guide? Any disadvantages?

Can I increase the recoil spring to reduce felt recoil? If so, what would be a range of recoil springs that would be considered acceptable before I'd start running into trouble with the gun cycling? I plan on mostly using WWB which if memory serves me is 230 grain.

In the end, I'd like a really nice shooter (I will not be carrying this gun ever).

-Zach

I just install the spring and mainspring housing on the gun and take a reading with the beavertail off. You can then just pull her apart and add the sear and disconnector if you want.

Arched/flat/wedged mainspring housings are a matter of choice and will change your grip angle. I've switched back and forth several times over the years. Same with trigger faces......smooth, flat, curved, half curved.....I bought a SVI trigger with interchangeable inserts so I could find what fit me best (medium flat trigger). If you change the mainspring you may find you may want to change the trigger style to fit you.

Springs......I could talk a day about springs. For a stock gun, you want 16-18lb recoil springs. Any less and you will batter the frame without a shock buffer. Any more and you'll beat up the lugs.

Felt recoil can be adjusted by modifying mainspring, recoil spring, firing pin stop, recoil buffer thickness, recoil rod weight......and a lot of other factors. Most people report less felt recoil with a lighter weight recoil spring. I went down to 9lbs and finally settled on 13lbs with a buffer to get the sights to settle perfectly for me. Your grip will determine what works for you.

Buffers are not the spawn of the devil, but you cannot slingshot the slide to release it anymore if you use one. If you bevel the inside of the slide a bit, they will typically last a thousand rounds (or more). The aluminum buffers can last even longer.

But......a better place to start would probably be the firing pin stop.

Using a squared firing pin stop will keep the gun in lockup a bit longer and will often feel like you have a heavier recoil spring.

Heavier recoil rods like tungsten will help reduce flip to a degree.....as does adding general weight to the gun (like brass or larger magwells).

We're just getting warmed up.


Lycanwelcometothematrixthrope

[zachomega]

Alright, so I took a few hours to digest all of this and then read some more.

I am going to be getting the squared firing pin stop. That much seems a definite.

Additionally, polishing all of the mating parts of the trigger bow etc will happen.

I am just going to get a new trigger while I am at it to end the vertical play it has.

I also will purchase a trigger pull gauge so I can adjust the sear spring.

Beyond that, most sources suggested sticking with the stock 16 lb recoil spring and a stock 23 pound main spring.

I don't plan on shooting any +p loads nor any light loads. So the stock recoild spring sounds reasonable.

I also read that if I lower the main spring, while the trigger pull will get lighter, it will also increase the slide velocity when it cycles creating more muzzle flip or battering the frame/slide. That seems undesirable since I know I can lighten the pull by adjusting the sear spring first and seeing where that puts me.

After reading, I also felt that the possible benefit (weight) of a full length guide rod didn't justify its cost. I'll stick with it the way JMB intended.

Any other tips/tricks I should utilize to improve my gun for cheap?

So far I am only really going to be spending on a new trigger (which isn't even essential), a trigger pull gauge, and the squared firing pin stop.

-Zach

[harold63]

Beyond that, most sources suggested sticking with the stock 16 lb recoil spring and a stock 23 pound main spring.

I don't plan on shooting any +p loads nor any light loads. So the stock recoild spring sounds reasonable.

I also read that if I lower the main spring, while the trigger pull will get lighter, it will also increase the slide velocity when it cycles creating more muzzle flip or battering the frame/slide.

Any other tips/tricks I should utilize to improve my gun for cheap?

-Zach

My opinion is if you aren't customizing or racing it, try to work with what you have since everything is already fitted. Making minor adjustments and polishing the parts are easy enough and cheap.

Reducing the mainspring will lighten the trigger pull some, but lightening the recoil spring is what will increase the slide velocity, the most. Again, it is wise of you (IMO) to stick with what is there, AMAP, especially if you are just shooting warm ammo.. A full length guide rod will give a negligible difference in muzzle flip, at least from what I have shot before and after. If you were going to be doing a lot of rapid firing, it would be a good swap.

There is a gun smith in my town that will do a complete trigger job (with the original parts) for $60 if you detail strip the gun before hand. Maybe someone there will do something similar?