State troopers disarmed me during a traffic stop, awkward but ended positive.

[Zet70]

Just thought I would share an actual positive encounter with the Fogelsville barracks state police last Friday night.

Was in the garage working on my truck about 10pm and decided that a nice beer was needed. Drank 1 beer and went to buy a six pack at a local watering hole. By this time it was around 11pm. Drove to a bar, bought a six pack and was headed home talking to my buddy on my cars Bluetooth when I see the lights in my rear view and hear the audible chirp behind me.

I hang up on my buddy, put my blinker on, check the mirrors and wait until I passed a on ramp waiting for a safe spot to pull over. So, there I am on the shoulder with plenty of room for the trooper to approach the car when I hear "Driver, turn the lights on in the car and lower all the windows".

I comply and then officer approaches the car, he explains that my window tint was the reason I was pulled over. He then states "Can I take a look at your license, regis..... Place your hands on the steering wheel and do not move, my partner has you covered."

Apparently there was a partner standing at my 4 o'clock who crept up on my passenger side and was peering through my passenger window. Something caught his eye and he alerted the primary contact officer during his sentence asking for my papers.

Him- "Do you have a gun on your floor?"

Me- "No, not on my floor."

Him- "What do you mean, not on the floor?"

Me- "I have a gun but I don't think it's on the floor." (I remembered I left the house with my 5" 1911 condition 1 IWB but did not remember if I pulled it from my belt when I re-entered my car leaving the bar. Sometimes I do this and place it on the floor in its holster when I am heading home.)

Him- "How can you not know if you have a gun on your floor or not?"

Me- "As far as I remember I have a full sized 1911 on my right hip condition 1, I do have my permit."

I explained that I did have my LTCF and that I did not remember removing it from my waist. At this time the second officer opened my passenger door, asked me exactly where it was, asked me to lean forward while he manually disarmed me.

At this time I was allowed to pull my license, reg, and insurance. The second officer then explained that he mistook my white iPhone for a gun on the floor between my legs. I have no idea how he made this mistake but oh well. I then heard him clearing the chamber above my roof and, he handed me my mag and +1 and commented on my carry piece being nice but explained that he was going to hold onto it until they ran the serial and were finishing up.

The primary asked where I was coming from, how much I had to drink and where I was headed. I explained everything and he stated that he could smell a beer on me and that it was very faint so he knew I was ok to drive.

Both officers then headed back to the cruiser with my 1911 and I waited.

They then returned, both on my drivers side, told me to pop my trunk so they could place my gun in the trunk. I then commented how the second officer was sneaky and scared the shit out of me, to which he replied "Yea, I'm like a ninja huh?"

I chuckled and they checked my window tiny % and after I passed they let me go with a warning after explaining how they need to be cautious about anything concerning a gun. I apologized for acting so blonde when they caught me off gaurd thinking they saw a gun on my floor.

All in all, awesome encounter. Courteous officers with a good sense of humor and were extremely professional.

A round of applause for competent LEOs!

[soberbyker]

Glad everything worked out for ya.

the feedback on this should be interesting

.

[mollymayhem82]

1. State troopers pull you over for your window tint.
2. State troopers see your iPhone and call it a gun.
3. State troopers disarm you for a suspected moving violation.
4. State troopers run your serial numbers against a non-existant registry to see if it's stolen, during a non-felony stop.
5. State troopers could smell beer, but due to a built in breathalyzer, could tell you were not drunk.
6. State troopers put the gun they took for no reason in the trunk of your car.
7. State troopers leave.

Yup. Great job by state troopers.

[PisnNapalm]

I see several things that should not have happened.

They took your property to run a serial number check without having any reason to believe it could be stolen. There was no RAS. At most they should have looked at your LTCF and been done with it. Did they check the serial number of your cell phone to make sure it wasn't stolen too? Property is property. Period.

They put your gun in the trunk of your car?? WTF? I sort of understand the whole unloading it thing, but they can't hand it back to you? Please...

I dunno man... You kissed your 4th amendments rights away by not objecting to them taking your property.

[PAOhio]

How did the partner open your passenger and gain access to your vehicle w/o a warrant? 'Officer safety'?

And as usual I'll say it again, this 'run the serial numbers' bull***t has got to stop.

[customloaded]

Just thought I would share an actual positive encounter with the Fogelsville barracks state police last Friday night.

Was in the garage working on my truck about 10pm and decided that a nice beer was needed. Drank 1 beer and went to buy a six pack at a local watering hole. By this time it was around 11pm. Drove to a bar, bought a six pack and was headed home talking to my buddy on my cars Bluetooth when I see the lights in my rear view and hear the audible chirp behind me.

I hang up on my buddy, put my blinker on, check the mirrors and wait until I passed a on ramp waiting for a safe spot to pull over. So, there I am on the shoulder with plenty of room for the trooper to approach the car when I hear "Driver, turn the lights on in the car and lower all the windows".
I don't think this was a lawful command. The interior light, no problem but to then open all the windows? Nope, that is a search in my book and not at all legal. No RAS or Probable Cause to require you to roll down all your windows.
I comply and then officer approaches the car, he explains that my window tint was the reason I was pulled over. He then states "Can I take a look at your license, regis..... Place your hands on the steering wheel and do not move, my partner has you covered."

Apparently there was a partner standing at my 4 o'clock who crept up on my passenger side and was peering through my passenger window. Something caught his eye and he alerted the primary contact officer during his sentence asking for my papers.

Him- "Do you have a gun on your floor?"

Me- "No, not on my floor."

Him- "What do you mean, not on the floor?"

Me- "I have a gun but I don't think it's on the floor." (I remembered I left the house with my 5" 1911 condition 1 IWB but did not remember if I pulled it from my belt when I re-entered my car leaving the bar. Sometimes I do this and place it on the floor in its holster when I am heading home.)

Him- "How can you not know if you have a gun on your floor or not?"

Me- "As far as I remember I have a full sized 1911 on my right hip condition 1, I do have my permit."

I explained that I did have my LTCF and that I did not remember removing it from my waist. At this time the second officer opened my passenger door, asked me exactly where it was, asked me to lean forward while he manually disarmed me.

At this time I was allowed to pull my license, reg, and insurance. The second officer then explained that he mistook my white iPhone for a gun on the floor between my legs. I have no idea how he made this mistake but oh well. I then heard him clearing the chamber above my roof and, he handed me my mag and +1 and commented on my carry piece being nice but explained that he was going to hold onto it until they ran the serial and were finishing up.
There is nothing legal about confiscating your private property. This was an illegal confiscation, PERIOD. There was no probable cause to believe you had committed a crime, were committing a crime or about to commit a crime with your firearm. The serial check was illegal. Nothing good or legal about it. In fact, see General Info Thread and you will find a MEMO from the State Police Firearms Supervisor explaining what these Troopers did was wrong and illegal.
The primary asked where I was coming from, how much I had to drink and where I was headed. I explained everything and he stated that he could smell a beer on me and that it was very faint so he knew I was ok to drive.
There is only one way to confirm or deny someone's intoxication level and that is with chemicals tests. Not all persons who are drunk have a strong odor on or about their person that is normally found with alcohol consumption. Fail on this Troopers part.
Both officers then headed back to the cruiser with my 1911 and I waited.

They then returned, both on my drivers side, told me to pop my trunk so they could place my gun in the trunk. I then commented how the second officer was sneaky and scared the shit out of me, to which he replied "Yea, I'm like a ninja huh?"
Did you actually allow these Troopers to place your firearm, uncased and unsecured on the bottom of your trunk? And did you leave it there?
I chuckled and they checked my window tiny % and after I passed they let me go with a warning after explaining how they need to be cautious about anything concerning a gun. I apologized for acting so blonde when they caught me off gaurd thinking they saw a gun on my floor.
So they only checked the window tint after they ran your gun and placed it in an unsecure location? And they let you go with a warning for what? You committed no traffic infraction so why kind of Warning did they give you? That it's cold outside so use caution while driving? I don't get it? Why apologize for anything? You answered the questions that were asked. No need to apologize for Nothing. Be blonde, brunetter, or pink, you did nothing wrong, illegal, immoral, or unethical so why apologize for answering the question? Its not your anything that the Trooper asked a question in such as manner as to solicit the response you gave. IE. Are there any firearms in your vehicle would have been a better question than the one he ask.
All in all, awesome encounter. Courteous officers with a good sense of humor who knew the laws and were extremely professional.
Courteous doesn't mean they didn't step all over you. They just did it in a way that makes you feel good. FAIL

A round of applause for competent LEOs!

Round of applause when you sue them for damaging your property they illegally took from you. Your firearm sliding around the trunk and all. Hell, how about filing criminal charges as the Trooper unloaded your gun while pointing it at you! You have no idea where the Trooper pointed the gun while he unloaded it. How many homes, cars, pedestrians did he muzzle sweep after he took the safety off of your 1911? FAIL

I have highlighted your statements in red and mine will be in blue in response.

Think you get the idea. Not a good encounter at all. In fact, you need to file a complaint against these Troopers.

CL

[Robert Kayland]

All in all, awesome awful encounter.

Fixed it for you.

[customloaded]

Article from the December 2011 MPOETC Newsletter

Law enforcement officers are often faced with the challenge of determining if a subject’s firearm does, in fact, belong to them. This information is not as easily obtained as one might think. The firearm information that is available to Pennsylvania (PA) law enforcement entities through CLEAN – FSADM (firearm records) is based on information provided by licensed firearm dealers in Pennsylvania, for legal sales and transfers of handguns in this state. This information is provided to the Pennsylvania State Police (PSP) through the submission of the SP4-113 Application/Record of Sale (ROS), which is statutorily mandated to be completed for the legal sale or transfer of a handgun. Once received by PSP, the ROS data is entered into the system and used for several reasons to include when attempting to return a firearm to its lawful owner.

The biggest misconception about the ROS information is that it is a registry of all firearms. This is not the case. PA statute prohibits maintenance of a firearms registry. Further, the data housed in the ROS database does not include long guns, firearms that are brought into the state, and certain exempted transfers of handguns between individuals as stated below.

As an example, if a subject moves into PA from another state and he brings firearms with him, these firearms and the corresponding information would not be in the ROS database. Only if the subject transfers a firearm while in PA, and a ROS is completed, is the information then contained in the ROS database.

Transfers of handguns between spouses, parent and child or grandparent and grandchild do not require a ROS form to be completed. If a ROS form is not completed and is not provided to PSP, no information pertaining to that transfer will be available through an FS ADM query.

Many in law enforcement query a subject’s firearm against the ROS system and confiscate it if the subject’s name is not associated with the firearm. The confiscation of a firearm should never be solely based on a negative response to a firearm records query. The totality of circumstances to include your department’s policies should be taken into consideration when making a determination of whether confiscation is appropriate.

It should also be noted that PA law provides for loaning a firearm to an individual who has a license to carry a firearm issued in PA (see 18 Pa. C.S. §6115). Thus in this circumstance, a subject who has a valid license to carry issued in PA can legally carry a handgun even if they do not own it.

Should you have any questions concerning this information please contact Trooper Paul K. Anderson, Supervisor, Firearm Administrative Section, at 717-346-3091.

[ViperGTS19801]

"I'm sorry, Troopers, but unless you can explain to me what suspicion you have that I should not be in possession of this firearm, I'm afraid I can't consent to a seizure of my property."

"It's for our safety."

"And for my safety I think we should all leave our guns right where they are and not touch any of them. Would you like to see my driver's license and registration?"

And this is where it comes in very handy to already have it out before the officers make it to your window. I keep my documentation in a small compartment by the door, so it's easily accessible and I don't have to shuffle around too much if I need to get it.

I think both sides could have done things a little bit differently, but I can't say anything went wrong, per se. The officers didn't have to disarm him and they probably went beyond the scope of their power a little bit, and the OP could have politely and respectfully declined the seizure of his property and eliminated the chance for it to "come back stolen" or be returned sans ammunition, etc. Fortunately, things turned out okay, and it sounds like the Troopers, while perhaps being and acting overly cautious, were professional and polite.

I can't say, IMHO, this was a positive encounter, although I can give it a neutral.

[OwnTheRide]

Look, unless your standards are so low that simply making it out of an encounter alive equates to a good encounter, this was not a good encounter. It was a horrible encounter, for the reasons many have detailed above.