Supporting Members

[awkx]

Cf. http://www.pafoa.org/forum/organizational-announcements-126/15021-financial-status-pennsylvania-firearm-owners-association.html (Financial Status of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association)

[NineseveN]

Cf. http://www.pafoa.org/forum/organizational-announcements-126/15021-financial-status-pennsylvania-firearm-owners-association.html (Financial Status of the Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association)

I'm thinking you need to be a supporting member to gain access to that page...

[soberbyker]

I'm thinking you need to be a supporting member to gain access to that page...

Yep ..........

Organizational Announcements This forum is meant to provide private communication with members who have a stake in the organization. As such it is restricted to admins, moderators, and donors to the organization.

[Frenchy]

Supporting members basically means we help fund this site. It is every one’s site, but in the long run, we can say "We" helped make it happen.
It also shows people you are serious about the site and have a financial part in it.
There are many that come and go; most supporting members are the staying kind who takes the site seriously. We might go half cocked some times, but in general we do every thing to support the site both on the web and off.

We also have access to the link you where not able to get on and can voice our opinions on there to the other members who are supporters without every one seeing it.

In reality, every one should pay a small part I believe, but some of us take it more seriously.
We involve ourselves in more then the forum, by either helping others in need directly or organizing out of site meets.
Just like a confirmed member elsewhere, it shows you are a standup person that no one needs to fear, because in the long run, you are known in and to the group.

Its more then a status, it is a brotherhood.

[Montanya]

I honestly think that financial info should be open to everyone, full disclosure. Simply because there are alot of people that come to group shoots, participate in raffles and support the forum in other ways. Those people should not be excluded from seeing such info. Just my 2c.

[NineseveN]

Supporting members basically means we help fund this site. It is every one’s site, but in the long run, we can say "We" helped make it happen.
It also shows people you are serious about the site and have a financial part in it.
There are many that come and go; most supporting members are the staying kind who takes the site seriously. We might go half cocked some times, but in general we do every thing to support the site both on the web and off.

We also have access to the link you where not able to get on and can voice our opinions on there to the other members who are supporters without every one seeing it.

In reality, every one should pay a small part I believe, but some of us take it more seriously.
We involve ourselves in more then the forum, by either helping others in need directly or organizing out of site meets.
Just like a confirmed member elsewhere, it shows you are a standup person that no one needs to fear, because in the long run, you are known in and to the group.

Its more then a status, it is a brotherhood

I'm sure you didn't mean for your post to come off as condescending and elitist, but you have to watch how you say things. There are a number of people that do not contribute financially here that are more helpful and bring more to the forum than most, if not any other “supporting member”. The way your post is worded, and the entire tone of it for that matter, comes off as a slight against people such as Lycanthrope, Pa. Patriot, Rocketfoot, Gunlawyer001, Whitefeather and Steve in PA (not to mention, myself -though I'm not about to take that personally, that would be rather childish). I'd put what those people contribute to the site up against any monetary amount someone can throw at it and walk away with the clear advantage every time.

The only reason PAFOA.org has the penetration and depth it does on the internet is because of the content of what people post. You could raise $30,000 a year and still be a joke as an online forum if you don't have a solid community of good people posting quality stuff and decent leadership (look at the AK-47.net forums for an example). Unless the staff of PAFOA.org uses all that money to buy search engine results and advertising, which does not appear to be the case, the money only helps keep the forum available, the people that post make it what it is. Without that, it's like a brand new playground with fresh paint and all the coolest toys in a neighborhood devoid of children. Now, if/when PAFOA starts getting more directly involved in politics and activism, that may change the balance a little, but thus far, most of what has been done in the name of PAFOA.org has been done by regular people here, many of them [i]not[/] supporting members.

So before you post things that state that the people that can afford to pay money for a green title in lieu of a blue one are more “serious” about the site and that they're “standup” people “that no one needs to fear”, consider what saying that exclusively about donors says about how you feel about the rest of us.

[Frenchy]

I honestly think that financial info should be open to everyone, full disclosure. Simply because there are alot of people that come to group shoots, participate in raffles and support the forum in other ways. Those people should not be excluded from seeing such info. Just my 2c.

So are you are saying some one who spent a dollar on a raffle should me mentionned as a supporting member?

The group shoots do not bring all that much to the PAFOA fund I dont believe. Maybe some one can correct me on this, but with the hundreds of people who have attended a group shoot, if you average it out, i doubt you would get a dollar per member who shot in the past year.

[Frenchy]

So before you post things that state that the people that can afford to pay money for a green title in lieu of a blue one are more “serious” about the site and that they're “standup” people “that no one needs to fear”, consider what saying that exclusively about donors says about how you feel about the rest of us.

I can assure you that I did not mean to reduce any member or to imply that one member was less or more important then any other. The question is as to what a supporting member is and why they have a Green “supporting Member” note to their SN, and the reason is that they have a financial investment in the group. It has nothing to do with how many or how few posts one has or the contents of those posts.
It is strictly a way to identify people who have donated money to the group. For all its importance the people who have more posts and “reputations” are designated in an other way.

The standup comment is relating to when there where less then 3000 members, actually less then 1000 if I am not wrong, and some of us saw the need to finance the group so it could get larger and get the .ORG status. About 30 to 50 of us stood up and donated at the time, and since then others have followed because they see the group as being a useful and insightful page worth supporting.

You should read my post in the intention it was written, had people not donated to the web page not just the forum, there might not be all the perks there are today. For one thing, there would be no .ORG

There are more then one way to involve ones self I agree, but the notations to the names is merely a way to show one of those, for the ones who have reputation and post value, there is the rep and block system.

I think if you read my post and your re-post, you will see that yours could be seen as more insulting as it is taken way out of context. I by no way said the supporting members where elites or better, just Standup and confirmed. Where as you seem to imply I said people where too cheep to donate.
How I feel about people here has absolutely nothing to do with their monitary status. I like many others work pay to pay and have no means to say I am better then any other member here.

Oh man. Did not mean for this to become a 'supporting member vs. not' battle.

Just looking for a little info. thats all.

Don't worry about it, I am sure NineseveN simply misread what I said. There is not and should not be a US against THEM version of this as not every one can send and moreover, not every one was here when we suggested this a few moons ago.

One could sum it up to say that Members who supported back when where surprised by seeing their names in green one day. Since then, it just kept happening.

[Montanya]

So are you are saying some one who spent a dollar on a raffle should me mentionned as a supporting member?

The group shoots do not bring all that much to the PAFOA fund I dont believe. Maybe some one can correct me on this, but with the hundreds of people who have attended a group shoot, if you average it out, i doubt you would get a dollar per member who shot in the past year.

Nope, not at all.If there is a private section of the site for contributors, that's fine, I don't run the site, if that is what Dan/Doug want so be it.

I am saying something like the financial information for the site and how much it is bringing in and what that money is being used or not used on is info that those people should be allowed to see. Often the items being raffled off are not the primary motivation for people to participate in those things, it's raising money for the PAFOA. Is a T-Shirt, Watch Cap, Basball Hat, available at less expensive prices than alot of people have paid? Certainly, but they pay more with the idea of supporting the forum. I have 3 different items that are PAFOA branded, overall, they likely provided around 20-30 dollars to the PAFOA not even considering the raffle at the shoots or donating items for those. I have contributed, like so many others as well, those "contributions" are just as important.

I just think that perhaps that should be a consideration in the discussions about "Supporting Members". It's really easy to cut a check, but I applaud the "Contributing Members" equally, the people that are out singing the praises of PAFOA for all to hear. I think in the end, the people who are going out of their way to buy PAFOA gear, come out to shoots and contribute their 1$/5$ or 100$ should equally get to see where it goes to. Perhaps they would see a $250,000 account with nothing being spent, so be it. I just think that just because you didn't write an idividual check doesn't make you less of a contributor.

Perhaps my offer to take cash individual contributions at the next shoot will help put some more green names up on the site, who knows, but open sharing of information should not be detrimental to the site or the organization.

[Emptymag]

So are you are saying some one who spent a dollar on a raffle should me mentionned as a supporting member?

The group shoots do not bring all that much to the PAFOA fund I dont believe. Maybe some one can correct me on this, but with the hundreds of people who have attended a group shoot, if you average it out, i doubt you would get a dollar per member who shot in the past year.

First I need to clarify that the Group Shoots held in Pittsburgh(and elsewhere)are not in any way endorsed/sponsored by the PAFAO.
These shoots are held for one reason. To get the members of PAFOA together to meet and have a good time. And we do have a good time.

When I initially started the T-shirt raffles in the "early days" of the group shoots, it was because I wanted to "give something back" to the organization that provided me with the opportunity to meet with so many people who shared a common interest.

I had sent my meager $10 donation, but wanted to do more. There were many others who felt the same way, and generously donated as well. Sure, it may have "only" been $5, but many of those folks have participated in the "fundraising" every month and they do so without the need for special recognition.

BearTitan generously donated his services to produce unique PAFOA items(with danp's blessing)to be sold to members who came to the shoots. By doing this, we were able to at least double the amount of money raised for the forum as we were previously raising.

I can assure you that the amount raised and donated by our shooters came to more than $1 per person over this past year.



My thoughts on donating?
The way I look at it, the friendships that I have seen grow and the knowledge that I've gained from the free membership in this organization are well worth the money I send in. I've not donated $100, but what I've gained is worth ten times that amount.

As for recognizing the folks who donate at the group shoots, I'd have to guess that it's difficult to keep track of that with any accuracy. He's(Dan) totally dependent on "us" providing him with a detailed list of who donate what amount... I know that when I did the raffles, it wasn't always possible to determine the amount donated by each individual, but I always included a list of names of those who gave. Dan has thanked us for our support, and surely appreciates it. I think that if someone feels the need to have "supporting member" by their name, it can easily be done by sending a check rather than, or in addition to, chipping in at the group shoot.

I don't really care what the money is used for. I trust Dan. He has a good head on his shoulders. (then again, he asked me to be a moderator... Hmmmm...)

Donate. Don't donate.
Totally your call.