Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Nov 2011
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    PLANO - Formerly Northampton County, Texas
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    Default Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Greetings,
    I'm no longer a PA resident, I live in TX. My Dad is a PA resident though and I'd like to get him a Ruger LCP for Christmas. I WANTED to buy it in TX and just give it to him to do the normal check-in thing for the airlines.

    What I CANNOT find for anything, is the legalities behind doing that. I know both states have fair gun laws, but I'd hate for him to have any hassles...

    1. At the airports
    2. If there is a time he needs to use it (God forbid) and for some reason it was done illegally.

    He does have a current PA CHL as I have a current TX CHL. Not sure if that applies.

    Does anyone know if the way I want to do it is legal or is an FFL transfer in order?

    With that said, I apologize if I posted this in the wrong area or if it was answered already. I searched and then made a best guesstimate on where to post this question.

    If FFL is required, I've never had to do that. Around here we just buy guns from each other with no real micro-management. Do I contact a PA FFL person or a TX one?

    I appreciate any help that can be provided on this one.

    Take care!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    south-east of disorder, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    From the best I can tell you wish to purchase the LCP in TX and then transport the firearm, via airline, to PA to give to your father as a christmas gift?

    If that is the case than flying with the gun does not change at all.

    In terms of "giving" it to him you will both have to go to a PA FFL and do the transfer from you to him, no different than any other transfer of a pistol in PA.

    Since you're not familiar with the PA process all you have to do is find a FFL who will do private transfers (unfortunately there are are some who won't). If you post the area of the state you will be in I'm sure someone will be able to off a reputable location.
    Once at said FFL tell them of what you would like to do. Your father will have to fill out the top part of the PA SP-4113, you will fill out the bottom, you both will also have to fill out the Federal form too. Then the FFL will call PICS (pa version of NICS) as long as everything checks out o.k. then they get an approval number, write it on the SP4113 and give you a copy, the gun is now your fathers.

    The down side to this (aside from the legalities which others can debate to no end) is that some FFL will really try to rake you over to coals for doing this! Most reputable dealers (in my area) will only charge $20, I have heard less but generally it seems they want to charge more... especially when you get closer to philthydelphia.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Buy a silencer.

    Tax: $200
    Cost of effective 5.56 suppressor: $500
    Letting the elderly neighbors sleep in until morning: Priceless.

    "132 and Bush I've got him at gun point, OK gun point, 132 and bush, cover is code 3"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Dingman, Twp., Pennsylvania
    (Pike County)
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    "In terms of "giving" it to him you will both have to go to a PA FFL and do the transfer from you to him, no different than any other transfer of a pistol in PA."




    I might be mistaken, but it is legal in PA for Parents,Grandparents and children to give or receive a handgun as a gift without FFL intervention. Thus, giving Dad the gift should not run afoul of PA law?????

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    south-east of disorder, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Quote Originally Posted by caldwelljoe View Post
    "In terms of "giving" it to him you will both have to go to a PA FFL and do the transfer from you to him, no different than any other transfer of a pistol in PA."




    I might be mistaken, but it is legal in PA for Parents,Grandparents and children to give or receive a handgun as a gift without FFL intervention. Thus, giving Dad the gift should not run afoul of PA law?????
    You are correct... As long as they are both PA residents. Once that factor is changed it is required to be handled as every other transfer.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Buy a silencer.

    Tax: $200
    Cost of effective 5.56 suppressor: $500
    Letting the elderly neighbors sleep in until morning: Priceless.

    "132 and Bush I've got him at gun point, OK gun point, 132 and bush, cover is code 3"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    PLANO - Formerly Northampton County, Texas
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Hey Folks,
    I greatly appreciate the responses and have become more educated on this procedure. Just to outline it better though...

    -I live in TX
    -Dad (He) lives in PA

    He will be coming to Texas to help me move from location A to location B in December (close to Christmas). During that period I wanted to give (gift) a handgun to him.

    Now what I've found is the BATF has some restrictions on this that they call straw purchases. However, the word "gift" is used 4 times in that section saying it is okay to do that. I'd imagine since it is a father/son thing that would help solidify that it really is just a gift.

    I can't remember where I found it though, but there appears to be some more guidelines around in/out of state purchases. In this particular case I think it would be fine to just hand it over to him if we were both PA residents. In our case though, I have to do an FFL transfer from a TX FFL person to a PA FFL person - just to be sure everything is 100% legal.

    I mean, I don't think PA requires any registration/paperwork for face-to-face sales and neither does TX. So I'm not sure why it would be considered illegal for me to gift a handgun to him and then he just flies back with it. However, doing the FFL transfer just seems to be the - prudent way to be sure of no hassles in the future.

    Does that sound about right to ya'll? Gotta love these laws that just make it tough on law abiding citizens.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    ..............., Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Indeed - any transfer between residents of different states requires the services of an FFL in the recipient's state. There is NO exception for familial relationships. This is FEDERAL law (18 USC 922(a)(5) &(3)).

    ETA: your father violates 18 USC 922(a)(3) when he brings the handgun from TX into PA.

    you violate 18 USC 922(A)(5) when you give a handgun to a PA resident in TX while you are a non-PA resident.

    You can buy him a gift under the BATF regulations but his taking physical possession of that handgun gift MUST be from a PA FFL. You could buy it in TX and transport it to PA YOURSELF and appear before a PA FFL to consumate the transfer or have it shipped to the PA FFL.
    Last edited by tl_3237; November 28th, 2011 at 06:28 PM.
    IANAL

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Quote Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
    Now what I've found is the BATF has some restrictions on this that they call straw purchases. However, the word "gift" is used 4 times in that section saying it is okay to do that. I'd imagine since it is a father/son thing that would help solidify that it really is just a gift.
    its not a straw purchase but and this is the big but that really isnt a factor since the gca 68 prohibits interstate transfers of firearms between non-licensees with very limited exceptions and giving daddy a gun isnt one of them.

    intrastate transfers are another matter altogether. atf doesnt care about those. they are only restricted by state law and pennsylvania is pretty laid back about father son transfers.

    could you get away with just giving it to him? sure. maybe. but if you get caught they will make an example out of you. the hell with the drug dealers with illegal machine guns. since it is a new gun you couldnt even lie about it and claim that you gave it to him when you lived in pennsylvania.

    there are laws that i dont mind breaking and there are stupid laws that i avoid breaking because i know that the consequences arent worth the risk no matter how slight that risk is.

    what i would do is call a couple or three dealers in your fathers area and get their best price on that gun. pay for it over the phone and tell your father to go in and pick it up.

    ianal but i have been an ffl for 20 years.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Quote Originally Posted by tl_3237 View Post
    Indeed - any transfer of handguns between residents of different states requires the services of an FFL in the recipient's state.
    transfers of longguns may take place in any state providing state law does not prohibit the transfer.

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    fixed it for you.
    Last edited by PaBimmerGuy; November 28th, 2011 at 06:42 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    south-east of disorder, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaBimmerGuy View Post
    what i would do is call a couple or three dealers in your fathers area and get their best price on that gun. pay for it over the phone and tell your father to go in and pick it up.
    based on the info you provided this sounds like it may be your best bet to keep everything kosher.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Buy a silencer.

    Tax: $200
    Cost of effective 5.56 suppressor: $500
    Letting the elderly neighbors sleep in until morning: Priceless.

    "132 and Bush I've got him at gun point, OK gun point, 132 and bush, cover is code 3"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    PA, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Buy a handgun in TX for PA resident?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaBimmerGuy View Post
    transfers of longguns may take place in any state providing state law does not prohibit the transfer.

    fixed it for you.
    Buyer would still need to go through an FFL

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