Discharge of a Firearm?

**elementfreak431** · November 24th, 2011, 01:06 PM

First off, happy Thanksgiving everyone!! My family is doing a huge thanksgiving dinner and we usually end it by setting off some fireworks and what not. Now, we have this miniature cannon with a 1 inch bore. Its an antique and fully functional. It was manufactured before 1898 and by legal definition is not a "firearm". I wanted to end the night by setting it off once with some pyrodex and some paper towels or a rag to get a decent seal. Would this be illegal activity? Would I be "discharging a firearm" or would it only be a noise ordinance problem? Thanks for everyones help

**red dog** · November 24th, 2011, 01:24 PM

my old landlord used to set his cannons off on the holidays. never a problem but then again we were not in chester co.

**MicroMonkey** · November 24th, 2011, 04:36 PM

man, i wanna come hang out and see that. Check your local ordinances about discharge of firearms. I can fire guns here at my house with no issues. As for it being a firearm or not, I have no idea. Happy holidays

**knight0334** · November 24th, 2011, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by elementfreak431

First off, happy Thanksgiving everyone!! My family is doing a huge thanksgiving dinner and we usually end it by setting off some fireworks and what not. Now, we have this miniature cannon with a 1 inch bore. Its an antique and fully functional. It was manufactured before 1898 and by legal definition is not a "firearm". I wanted to end the night by setting it off once with some pyrodex and some paper towels or a rag to get a decent seal. Would this be illegal activity? Would I be "discharging a firearm" or would it only be a noise ordinance problem? Thanks for everyones help

"Firearm" is defined differently for different laws.

1. Under federal law that isn't a "firearm" under the NFA or GCA
2. Under PA law it isn't a "firearm" for the purposes of the UFA, unless you carry it concealed and it meets the definition of a "firearm" under 6102 with it's measurements - then it is a "firearm".
3. Under PA law it IS a "firearm" for the purposes of prohibited persons.

You need to see what your municipality has on the books for discharging a "firearm", and what they define as a "firearm".

**middlefinger** · November 24th, 2011, 07:01 PM

my neighbor fired off a pretty large cannon several weeks ago but before he did he called each neighbor and asked if it was ok ...there were no problems ....however , my cats were not impressed...

**Statkowski** · November 24th, 2011, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by middlefinger

my neighbor fired off a pretty large cannon several weeks ago ...

How big? A 75mm Pack howitzer? A 105mm towed howitzer? An 8-inch (203mm) self-propelled howitzer? Inquiring minds want to know.....

**tsafa** · November 25th, 2011, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Statkowski

How big? A 75mm Pack howitzer? A 105mm towed howitzer? An 8-inch (203mm) self-propelled howitzer? Inquiring minds want to know.....

He said 1 inch bore.

One inch bore is very close to standard muzzle loaders. 50 cal muzzle loaders are very common hunting rifles. And if you shoot historical muskets .69 and .75 caliber muskets are common.

If you are discharging just for show, you don't need to put a lead ball over your powder. Just crumple up some paper and put it over the powder (black powder needs compression to work good and make a big bang). Do people commonly shoot fireworks on the 4th of July in your neighborhood??? because that is all you are doing if you stuff paper over blackpowder.

**Exbiker** · November 25th, 2011, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by elementfreak431

First off, happy Thanksgiving everyone!! My family is doing a huge thanksgiving dinner and we usually end it by setting off some fireworks and what not. Now, we have this miniature cannon with a 1 inch bore. Its an antique and fully functional. It was manufactured before 1898 and by legal definition is not a "firearm". I wanted to end the night by setting it off once with some pyrodex and some paper towels or a rag to get a decent seal. Would this be illegal activity? Would I be "discharging a firearm" or would it only be a noise ordinance problem? Thanks for everyones help

I would think if it shoots a hard projectile it would be discharging but a paper wad would make more like an old Bangsite cannon.

**mauser** · November 25th, 2011, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by tsafa

He said 1 inch bore.

One inch bore is very close to standard muzzle loaders. 50 cal muzzle loaders are very common hunting rifles. And if you shoot historical muskets .69 and .75 caliber muskets are common.

If you are discharging just for show, you don't need to put a lead ball over your powder. Just crumple up some paper and put it over the powder (black powder needs compression to work good and make a big bang). Do people commonly shoot fireworks on the 4th of July in your neighborhood??? because that is all you are doing if you stuff paper over blackpowder.

He said his is a 1" bore, the one Statkowski is asking about is this one:

my neighbor fired off a pretty large cannon several weeks ago ...

I'll go on record as saying that 1" bore isn't really "very close to standard muzzle loaders".

For what it's worth, a one inch bore is twice the diameter of a .50 caliber, which is what most would consider a standard muzzle loader. That's not what I consider "very close". Historical muskets aren't very common other than the realm of collectors or re-enactors. Even at that, 1" bore is considerably larger than .69 or .75 caliber, a dime happens to fall between the diameter of those 2 calibers and it's size comparison to 1" can be seen in the top picture.

For a quick comparison, an Altoid mint is ½" diameter (.50), the gold colored dollar coins currently in circulation are 1.043" diameter and a dime is .705" diameter.

I also happen to have a .56 caliber lead ball (only slightly larger than the .50 previously mentioned) and a 1" diameter grinding stone handy.

Now, to the point of firing it in your neighborhood; I'm too late, this is the day after, but I'll give my opinion anyhow. If it's that questionable you shouldn't do it. If it would "only be a noise ordinance problem", you're already in violation on at least one count. Sure, it sounds like a blast (pun intended) but if you clearly violate a law and have to defend yourself do you really want to defend yourself while explaining something as questionable as firing a cannon in a residential area? Even if it is only a wad of paper, people get freaked out when they're is something they aren't familiar with involved. Are you willing to risk having your antique confiscated? It could get expensive to pay a fine and/or defend yourself. If it does happen to get confiscated you may or may not get it back. I wouldn't risk it if it were my cannon.

As an example of how people get uneasy with unfamiliar things, we had an incident with a miniature cannon at our club at one of our cookouts. It was on the 50 yard range, fired into the backstop. There was a lot of smoke, a nice boom and everyone enjoyed it,...until someone mentioned it at the next meeting! The shit hit the fan! Our berms aren't made to stop cannon balls! You could blow right through it and who knows where that cannon ball might end up, etc.
I'll mention again, it was a miniature cannon.
We dug around looking for the "cannon ball", it should be easy to find, it's brass. It took a while to find it, even we had higher expectations, it only penetrated about 2" - 3" into the dirt, we were looking way too deep. Makes no difference though, cannons are forbidden there now, even if they are just miniature.