Victory Brewing, Downingtown, NOT OC Friendly!

[cfn0922]

EDIT 11/22/11: All the relevant information pertaining to the OP is contained within post 2 of this thread. This should prevent people having to trudge through the entire thread just to get information relating to the account below.

Given that I had a negative OC experience yesterday, I thought I would join this forum and share my story.

Firstly, I have been carrying a firearm for about 2 years now and have been OC'ing on and off for about a year. Last night was a time I decided to OC.

I have been going to Victory brewing for over a year now and have OC'ed there a few times without any problems....... until last night.

I was sitting at the bar with my girlfriend drinking a beer and a guy came up next to me, pointed at the firearm on my hip, and said "what's that?". I was a little confused and asked him if he wanted to know the make and/or model as I thought he was being facetious as most adults know what a gun looks like. Plus, I carry a slightly unusual gun and people have come up to me before and asked what it is. He repeated the question again and pointed at my firearm so I responded "it's a firearm". I then asked if he worked here to which he replied yes and if he was the manager which he also replied yes. He told me that it's against the law to have a firearm on you whilst at a place that serves alcohol. I told him that he was wrong and that there is no law in Pa that states that. He said he wasn't sure but thinks it against the law in Pa to do his. Rather than going back and forth with this, I asked him what he would like me to do about it. He didn't say anything so I said "do you want me to cover it up?" to which he replied yes so I put my t-shirt over it and he walked off.

10 minutes later he came back over looking a little distressed and said "I'm not comfortable with you having that firearm on you". So, I asked the same thing I did before; "what do you want me to do about it?". Again, he didn't say anything so I said "do you want me to leave?". He started saying something about how an employee was uncomfortable with me having it so I said again "do you want me to leave?" to which he said "I'm not comfortable with you having it" so I replied "you are the manager, if you ask me to leave, then I will leave". He then said that I could finish my drink, fill my growler, but he wanted me to leave once this was complete. So I said fine, I'll do that.

I've had negative OC experiences before but this one was by far the worst considering I have OC'ed there before and a lot of the bar staff know me as I frequent there often.

It's quite clear that Victory brewery doesn't have a policy on firearms as demonstrated by the lack of knowledge demonstrated by the manager.

To that end, I'm going to e-mail the restaurant general manager, Matt Krueger (matt@victorybeer.com) and get a clarification on there policy if they indeed have one.

If anybody wants to also e-mail them and express there dismay, please feel free.

I will update this thread as I receive feedback from them.

[cfn0922]

UPDATE 11/21/2011

I e-mailed the following to the Restaurant General Manager and copied the Communications Manager (09:00);

Hello Mr Krueger,

I have been frequenting the Victory brewpub for about a year now and whilst I am there, I do carry a firearm with me either concealed or openly.

This past Saturday (19th November), my firearm was being openly carried when the manager approached me about it. He wasn't comfortable with me having it so I asked him if he wanted me to cover it up. He said yes, so I covered it up. Ten minutes later he came back and said that he still wasn't comfortable with me having it. I asked if he would like me to leave. He said that I could finish my beer, fill my growler, but after that, he wanted me to leave. I said that's fine. After all, private property rights trump my second amendment rights.

A more detailed version of events can be viewed here;

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...-friendly.html

I am writing to you as the manager did not seem aware of firearm laws in Pennsylvania as he believed it was illegal to have a firearm with you in an establishment that serves alcohol. There is no such law like this in Pa.

Whilst the manager was nothing but respectful and courteous to me throughout the entire interaction, I do feel offended that I was asked to leave the premises given that I frequent the bar often and have openly carried my firearm there before.

To that end, does your management have any training on Pa firearm laws? Also, what is Victory's policy (if indeed there is one) with regards to firearms on their premises?

You can contact me on this e-mail address or on MY_CELL_NO.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely

MY_NAME

I just received this e-mail (10:40);

Hello MY_NAME,

Thank you for reaching out to us and for bringing this incident to our attention. We will be discussing this internally and will get back to you with a response within a week.

I appreciate your patience and wish you a happy Thanksgiving.

Cheers!
Karen

Karen Noonan
Communications Manager

Victory Brewing Company
420 Acorn Lane
Downingtown, PA 19335
karenn@victorybeer.com
www.victorybeer.com <http://www.victorybeer.com/>
Twitter: @victorybeer
Facebook: facebook.com/victorybeer

to which I replied;

Karen,

Thank you for responding. I look forward to hearing your response.

Make sure you drink a few Hop Devils at Thanksgiving!

Regards

MY_NAME

************************************************** ************************************************** **********

Post 121 to 127 are relevant to the OP;

Post 121: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...ml#post1803196

************************************************** ************************************************** **********

UPDATE 11/22/2011

I received an e-mail from Karen Noonan today and the pertinent part is contained below;

Victory Brewing Company believes in and respects your right to lawfully own and carry firearms, therefore we defer to the laws of the Commonwealth regarding those rights. We endeavor to create a safe environment and cannot imagine a circumstance where anyone would require the protection of a firearm at Victory Brewing Company.

We are also aware that a vast majority of our customers do not want to see an armed customer. So our request to all our customers is that if you possess a license and legally carry a firearm, please keep it out of plain view, especially for the sake of our younger customers. We hope you can respect our perspective on balancing the (sometimes) competing interests of our customers.

[350CI]

sounds like you handled it great, also sounds like the manager didn't have a clue on what to do or how to handle the situation.

[snakeman21]

OK, guess I'll be the first to say it: Welcome to the forums! Sounds like you handled it well.

[gnbrotz]

Don't take this the wrong way because I've certainly had a drink or two with friends while carrying concealed(and I don't feel its irresponsible if done in moderation), but do you think maybe its a bit tacky sitting at a bar with your gun exposed? I understand the are many OC activists on this board, but I wonder if thats the responsible image you want to convey while engaged in such activism.

Who sets the standard for "responsible"? You?

For the record, I have consumed alcohol while OC, both at private gatherings, and in commercial establishments that offer alcohol for consumption. I'll agree that it may not be the right choice for everyone, but that's a personal decision, not one that someone else should decide/impose. Of course, property owners have the right to make such decisions and impose those decisions on entrants to their property, but you are I should not be deciding what either the property owner or any entrant should be doing.

[cfn0922]

Don't take this the wrong way because I've certainly had a drink or two with friends while carrying concealed(and I don't feel its irresponsible if done in moderation), but do you think maybe its a bit tacky sitting at a bar with your gun exposed? I understand the are many OC activists on this board, but I wonder if thats the responsible image you want to convey while engaged in such activism.

Tacky or not, I wasn't doing anything illegal.

The reason I ended OC'ing whilst at the bar is because the place was hot so I took my hoodie off and because I don't like the feel of the leather against my skin and my rear sight has a tendency to make holes in my t-shirts, I didn't want to place my t-shirt over my firearm.

I am no way an OC activist. I OC'ed because of the circumstances.

Besides, like I mentioned, I wasn't doing anything illegal.

[xtcjpr13]

Don't take this the wrong way because I've certainly had a drink or two with friends while carrying concealed(and I don't feel its irresponsible if done in moderation), but do you think maybe its a bit tacky sitting at a bar with your gun exposed? I understand the are many OC activists on this board, but I wonder if thats the responsible image you want to convey while engaged in such activism.

I personally do not. The image is still responsible as long as you stay responsible. I know when I go out to a bar or bar/restaurant, I limit myself to 2 beers and that is usually with dinner. Not because I feel like I cant handle more, it is just what I feel comfortable with and what I consider responsible for myself.

[priell3]

Definitely go to the next level with this. Let them know you are a well known, frequent customer and feel insulted at how you were treated. You handled it well.

I OC in establishments that server alcohol and enjoy my brew in moderation.

[acosenza2]

Given that I had a negative OC experience yesterday, I thought I would join this forum and share my story.

Firstly, I have been carrying a firearm for about 2 years now and have been OC'ing on and off for about a year. Last night was a time I decided to OC.

I have been going to Victory brewing for over a year now and have OC'ed there a few times without any problems....... until last night.

I was sitting at the bar with my girlfriend drinking a beer and a guy came up next to me, pointed at the firearm on my hip, and said "what's that?". I was a little confused and asked him if he wanted to know the make and/or model as I thought he was being facetious as most adults know what a gun looks like. Plus, I carry a slightly unusual gun and people have come up to me before and asked what it is. He repeated the question again and pointed at my firearm so I responded "it's a firearm". I then asked if he worked here to which he replied yes and if he was the manager which he also replied yes. He told me that it's against the law to have a firearm on you whilst at a place that serves alcohol. I told him that he was wrong and that there is no law in Pa that states that. He said he wasn't sure but thinks it against the law in Pa to do his. Rather than going back and forth with this, I asked him what he would like me to do about it. He didn't say anything so I said "do you want me to cover it up?" to which he replied yes so I put my t-shirt over it and he walked off.

10 minutes later he came back over looking a little distressed and said "I'm not comfortable with you having that firearm on you". So, I asked the same thing I did before; "what do you want me to do about it?". Again, he didn't say anything so I said "do you want me to leave?". He started saying something about how an employee was uncomfortable with me having it so I said again "do you want me to leave?" to which he said "I'm not comfortable with you having it" so I replied "you are the manager, if you ask me to leave, then I will leave". He then said that I could finish my drink, fill my growler, but he wanted me to leave once this was complete. So I said fine, I'll do that.

I've had negative OC experiences before but this one was by far the worst considering I have OC'ed there before and a lot of the bar staff know me as I frequent there often.

It's quite clear that Victory brewery doesn't have a policy on firearms as demonstrated by the lack of knowledge demonstrated by the manager.

To that end, I'm going to e-mail the restaurant general manager, Matt Krueger (matt@victorybeer.com) and get a clarification on there policy if they indeed have one.

If anybody wants to also e-mail them and express there dismay, please feel free.

I will update this thread as I receive feedback from them.

Welcome to the forums. It sounds like you have handled it well. Update us on this whenever you hear back. I may send of an email as well.

Don't take this the wrong way because I've certainly had a drink or two with friends while carrying concealed(and I don't feel its irresponsible if done in moderation), but do you think maybe its a bit tacky sitting at a bar with your gun exposed? I understand the are many OC activists on this board, but I wonder if thats the responsible image you want to convey while engaged in such activism.

Tacky to sit as a bar with a gun? Irresponsible? I don't see why. There are times when I OC at a restaurant and also have a beer or two. Is that irresponsible or tacky?

The message it sends to be able to carry a firearm and also drink within reason speaks volumes about being a responsible gun owner.

I suppose one could also find it tacky and irresponsible to sit at a bar with car keys.

Some find it irresponsible and tacky to carry a gun to the grocery store, or church, or the movie theater.

[mollymayhem82]

Don't take this the wrong way because I've certainly had a drink or two with friends while carrying concealed(and I don't feel its irresponsible if done in moderation), but do you think maybe its a bit tacky sitting at a bar with your gun exposed? I understand the are many OC activists on this board, but I wonder if thats the responsible image you want to convey while engaged in such activism.

I'll preface this by saying: I don't open carry, ever. I don't like it, I think it draws unnecessary attention. My boyfriend does it all the time, and I accept that. We don't always have to agree on everything.

I have a couple of problems with your statement, the part I boldened. One, when did the OP say he was an activist? He was having a drink at a bar, not handing out pamphlets about gun rights at a political rally.

Two, what's a "responsible image" supposed to be? Is he supposed to to be a clean cut guy, wearing a suit and loafers, any time he wants to open carry? What if he's walking to the Turkey Hill for a pack of cigarettes in a wife beater and cargo shorts? What if he's a hispanic guy with a scruffy beard and dirty jeans? Can you define what a "responsible image" is?

In other words, why should anyone act any differently than they do if they didn't have a gun? If you're an asshole normally, open carrying isn't going to make you less of an asshole. If you like to have a drink now and then, what difference does it make if you carry a gun when you do it? You already admitted that you carried while drinking, so what's the difference between the two of you?