Colt Defender Owners?

[IronButt]

We were at camp this weekend & a friend had a brand new Colt Defender .45 that he had bought recently, but hadn't fired. I told him that new 1911's can sometimes be picky about ammo & mags, so he brought along 100 rounds of Federal 185 JHP & 100 of Speer Gold Dot 230 gr.

We had numerous FTFs with the slide stopping about 1/2" from going into battery. The FTF's happened sometimes 2-3 times per mag & it never fed a full mag without at least one FTF. We tried all his mags, my SA mags & my Wilson Combat mags. My XTP & Berry's 230 gr RN reloads gave the same results. There were no FTE's.

I detail stripped the slide & the only thing out of the ordinary I could find was the extractor seemed kinda tight compared to my SA. The feed ramp & the edge of the chamber had brass marks at the 7 O'Clock position & there were scratches on the case mouths of the brass. The feed ramp & chamber looked free of any roughness or defects.

He bought it from a local shop & the shop owner is an accomplished smith with 30 yrs experience. My friend is going to return it to the shop for inspection or work, but does anybody have any ideas?

[bigjrk]

I bought my Defender just after they hit the market.
I had a similar problem when mine was new. Just not as often.

I sent it back to Colt. They polished the feed ramp. No problems since.

[IronButt]

I bought my Defender just after they hit the market.
I had a similar problem when mine was new. Just not as often.

I sent it back to Colt. They polished the feed ramp. No problems since.

Thanks. I figured that might be the problem.

Maybe I'm just an old fart, but I don't think a new Colt that cost close to a grand should need work right out of the box for it to function.

[Noah_Zark]

. . . I detail stripped the slide & the only thing out of the ordinary I could find was the extractor seemed kinda tight compared to my SA. The feed ramp & the edge of the chamber had brass marks at the 7 O'Clock position & there were scratches on the case mouths of the brass. The feed ramp & chamber looked free of any roughness or defects.

You answered your own question. The extractor is the issue, and is (in my experience and opinion) the cause of many new compact 1911s having FTF issues.

The classic failure mode of a 1911 extractor exerting too much force on a case is when 230 ball ammo hangs up on either the feed ramp or the top of the chamber just inside the barrel hood. The case should be free to "rotate" upward, and the case rim slide up in the extractor claw groove with a properly-tensioned extractor. Snick-snick, bang, lather, rinse, repeat until the mag runs dry.

If the extractor exerts too much force on the case, the case is constrained against the slight rotation it must make to feed, and there is significant resistance to the case rim trying to slide up into the extractor groove at the same time. The additional force slows things down and the result is exactly what you and your friend experienced -- a classic nose-up FTFeed.

The danger here is the immediate conclusion to "polish the feed ramp." Put the Dremel down and step away. It may need polishing later, but the feed ramp is a secondary or tertiary variable. The extractor is the low-hanging fruit and MUST be dealt with first:

The FIRST, repeat, FIRST thing to do is check the extractor force (some call it "tension") and adjust it accordingly. Personally, I have a few Ed Brown extractors in the parts box because I've found them to be the most consistent for the $$$. Not to say they don't need a bit of tweaking, but I've been able to do nothing with a cranky 1911 that won't feed except install an Ed Brown extractor and the gun starts running. Maybe not 100%, but way better than 40% to 70%. What's that tell ya when the 1911 goes from 40% - 70% to 95+% feed reliability? Feed ramp hasn't been touched.

Google "1911 extractor tuning" here or on the web and there are several good write-ups on how to do it. A properly tuned extractor will not drop hot empties on your head, in your face, or between your girl's ta-tas. A set of Weigand 1911 extractor force gauges are very helpful.

I had the benefit of a salty gunny that ran the first armory I was assigned to out of 2111 school teach me all about 1911 extractor tuning. He had a few extractors with different colors of paint on the relieved areas that he used to illustrate certain "f__ked up conditons" in a 1911A1, and told us what to do to the extractors to remedy the problems. One quick and dirty check was to insert the extractor into the slide and place a dummy round hooked under the extractor claw and against the breechface. With the slide held top side up, the dummy should be free to rotate upward if pushed with a finger from the underside, loos to the point of almost rattling, but the dummy should not fall out of the extractor and slide when the finger was removed. The dummy MUST NOT hang pointing upward as if "stuck" when the finger was removed, and it MUST NOT fall out when hooked behind the extractor claw and against the breechface. After working on several dozen really hammered 1911A1s you get a "feel" for just how the extractor should be.

Again, Google "1911 Extractor tuning" for lots of good write ups, and cross the extractor off the list BEFORE picking up the f__king Dremel and going anywhere near the feed ramp. 1911 noobs see that little shelf where the top of the feed ramp in the frame meets the bottom of the chamber mouth and immediately believe that's the problem. DANGER, Will Robinson! Don't go there unless you are well experienced working with the 1911.

The compact, sub-compact, and micro-compact 1911s all rely on EVERYTHING performing JUST RIGHT because the control window for all the variables is extremely narrow than that compared to a 5" Govt Model. Recoil spring(s) force, mag spring force, mag feed lips (typically early release lips), extractor tension, extractor claw geometry, feed ramp configuration and finish, bullet style and geometry, firearm lubrication, & much, much more as they say all have to be in a significantly more perfect "balance" in a micro-compact than they do in a 5" 1911. When they are, everything works. But the compact 1911 is much less forgiving.

Finally, I've owned three Colt Defenders and each one of the f__king things had extractor issues when they were new to me. Two had multiple FTFeeds, one dropped empties in my face and down my shirt. The ONLY thing I did was tune the extractors (I replaced one of them with an Ed Brown) and the Colts ran like the proverbial Singer sewing machine. I still own two of them, having sold one back to the original owner when he learned that I had "fixed" it. He's tickled with it and thinks I walk on water.

HTH,

Noah

[Sigman]

I own the Talo Ltd. Edition Colt Night Defender, and it has been flawless for me so far after 100rds.

[IronButt]

Thanks, Noah. I thought the extractor shouldn't be that tight, but was thinking that Colt may have tighter tolerances than my Springfield & they would certainly be tighter than the 1911's that I used in the Marines 45 yrs ago.

[Steel City]

We were at camp this weekend & a friend had a brand new Colt Defender .45 that he had bought recently, but hadn't fired. I told him that new 1911's can sometimes be picky about ammo & mags, so he brought along 100 rounds of Federal 185 JHP & 100 of Speer Gold Dot 230 gr.

We had numerous FTFs with the slide stopping about 1/2" from going into battery. The FTF's happened sometimes 2-3 times per mag & it never fed a full mag without at least one FTF. We tried all his mags, my SA mags & my Wilson Combat mags. My XTP & Berry's 230 gr RN reloads gave the same results. There were no FTE's.

I detail stripped the slide & the only thing out of the ordinary I could find was the extractor seemed kinda tight compared to my SA. The feed ramp & the edge of the chamber had brass marks at the 7 O'Clock position & there were scratches on the case mouths of the brass. The feed ramp & chamber looked free of any roughness or defects.

He bought it from a local shop & the shop owner is an accomplished smith with 30 yrs experience. My friend is going to return it to the shop for inspection or work, but does anybody have any ideas?

I purchased a brand new defender in .45 ACP a few months back, by far the worst firearm I have ever owned or shot. I don't care what anyone says, a brand new firearm better work out of the box PERIOD. Having to make adjustments or modifications is ridiculous, I don't care who makes it or how much the gun cost. I put 400 rounds through mine experimenting with different ammo and testing several things along the way...failure after failure after failure. I purchased the defender to add into my carry rotation, screw that, not taking any chances with my life! I considered sending it back to Colt but after doing some research their turnaround time is terrible and many come back and still have the same issues. My research also showed many have issues with this particular model. I had the same issues your friend had and then some, I ended up selling mine to a local gun dealer and picked up a 3" Kimber model. So far I have 200 rounds through the Kimber without issue.

Good luck to your friend!

[Rocketgeezer]

I purchased a brand new defender in .45 ACP a few months back, by far the worst firearm I have ever owned or shot. I don't care what anyone says, a brand new firearm better work out of the box PERIOD. Having to make adjustments or modifications is ridiculous, I don't care who makes it or how much the gun cost. I put 400 rounds through mine experimenting with different ammo and testing several things along the way...failure after failure after failure. I purchased the defender to add into my carry rotation, screw that, not taking any chances with my life! I considered sending it back to Colt but after doing some research their turnaround time is terrible and many come back and still have the same issues. My research also showed many have issues with this particular model. I had the same issues your friend had and then some, I ended up selling mine to a local gun dealer and picked up a 3" Kimber model. So far I have 200 rounds through the Kimber without issue.

Good luck to your friend!

I agree that having to work on a $1100 dollar gun for it to work properly is a bunch of crxp, however I have come to the conclusion if you want one thats what you have to deal with, after aprox 450- 500 rds and a little polishing here and there, my Defender runs like a swiss watch, except for the ocasional pop in the head from the brass, as for you comparing the Colt to the Kimber, the Kimber I had had the same issues your Colt did, the Defender is the 5th 3in 1911 I have tryed, spent a fortune and traded a lot of guns, but I do have to admit if I had a chance to shoot a STI first that probably what I would have had,

[mrnyman]

The 1911 is a tinkerers gun, true a $1000 gun should run well right out of the box, but bear in mind that the Design is 100 years old, it were designed about the time when the model T were being designed and the Wright brothers were superstars, it were designed when everything were built by hand, calculators and computers were not even thought of then much less being available to JMB.

For something being so archaic i think the 1911 has done well.

If you want a Gun that runs super right out of the Box then a Glock or a Sig has your name on it.

[OperatorX]

I too bought a Colt Defender just when they came out. Back then it was only $600. It had the same problem... which seems quite typicall. However, I sent it back to Colt and they turned it around in a week, claiming a tuning job was needed. Ever since then, it has been flawless with all types of ammo, including lead reloads. I later sold it to my brother as he was becomming a cop and wanted a BUG with some bite. He fell in love with it when I first got it and kept trying to steal it from me. I eventually gave in when my wife surprised me with a Springfield Micro Compact. That Defender probobly has close to 6000 rounds through it and has competed in a few IDPA local matches. It's still running on the original recoil/guide assembly. Yes, I agree, a new gun should operate correctly out of the box, but like a car, there will be a break in period with some mortaility. Hang in there and let Colt fix it for you. You won't be dissapointed.