Advice for the New Shooter

[saleen322]

I have no delusions about changing the minds of the “Experts” who can give absolute advice to anyone about everything-they are not the intended readers.

Here is some advice to the new shooter starting out:

I want to get a good pistol to start out with: My opinion, this is easy; you are best served with getting a quality .22 LR with good, adjustable sights. Don’t settle for a barrel less than 5 inches for the sight radius and learn the iron sights before messing with any optics. Ok, more opinion, I know it is not trendy but arguing about the best polymer framed 22 pistol is like debating who is the tallest midget. One might be taller among the dwarfs but they are all shorter than normal people. The more steel in the pistol, the better it will serve you. Learn to shoot the heaviest pistol you can safely handle with one hand. You can get a good, quality (maybe used-ok) 22 for under $300. I am not pushing a brand but hey, this is an opinion piece, so it is hard to beat a Ruger MK II or MK III dollar for dollar. If the local range “expert” with his favorite “made-of-plastic-so-it-is-fantastic” pistol tells you how you need to get a real gun; set a couple of targets out at 50 yards, get yourself some CCI Standard Velocity ammo and let him show you his skills shooting against you. Oh, make sure there are spectators. He will give you a wide berth for the foreseeable future. When it is time to move up, you will get most of your money out of a good gun in trade and you can put it towards a better 22. 22 pistols are on a curve as far as quality. To get a little more quality you often have to pay more money exponentially. High-end 22s are among the most expensive of any pistols. If you doubt it, price a new Feinwerkbau FW93 or even a used Hammerli 208 and check back with me.

Good Training: Too many instructors and/or people selling training services will often try to make you think this is some kind of black art, it’s not. Good training should have safety, solid fundamentals, and marksmanship before any tactics. If the instructor explains to you that something else is the latest techniques out of Soldier of Fiction Magazine and you need to get onboard, you are in the wrong place. If you ever have any questions, come back here and ask. After all of the tax money spent in my training, I owe you that.

You can’t fake accuracy: Good training should teach accuracy before speed. Do it the other way around and you will only learn to hit nothing but be able to do it real fast!

Your instructor states he/she is a competitive shooter: Saying someone is a competitive shooter is like saying they play stick-and-ball sports. You are thinking major league baseball and the truth may be closer to backyard croquet. All shooting sports are not created equal. Americans probably have more firearms per capita than any other country but, as a county, we can’t shoot very well; particularly with pistols. If you doubt that, look at a PPC target and compare it to Free Pistol target. Comparing apples and oranges? Maybe, but the highest American finisher in the 2011 International World Championship in Free Pistol was 36th place. These are America’s best International shooters! As a country we do well at the “big target” shooting (some are excellent for teaching concealed gun handling) but not so good with the precision Olympic events that require a high level of shooting skill. Still doubt it, look at the Olympic Gold (or any) Medal Pistol winners and see how many are from the USA.

I made the choice (mistake?) some years ago of trying International style shooting. I get my butt whipped but not as bad as in the beginning. Funny thing though, in all but about 2 of the LE instructor schools I attended, I ate the other students alive in the skills assessments. They just did not have the fundamentals background you are forced to learn by shooting very challenging events. Bottom line, although it is good to shoot in any competitive shooting, some are more beneficial than others. Don’t over think this, try plain old conventional pistol, AKA Bullseye, with your new 22 and you will learn a TON!! Do that for a couple of years and you will most likely be the guy to beat at the local range among people who never shot bullseye. Well, I hope this helps and I apologize to anyone who thinks I stepped on their toes. Best of luck to you the new shooter.

[350CI]

well written, i personally agree with alot you've said...

[saleen322]

well written, i personally agree with alot you've said...

Thanks. I usually just bite my tongue and say nothing. There are so many barely qualified people offering advice and worse, training, to the unknowing beginner. They can do what they wish themselves but don't mislead the beginner.

[tacticalreload]

Funny thing though, in all but about 2 of the LE instructor schools I attended, I ate the other students alive in the skills assessments. They just did not have the fundamentals background you are forced to learn by shooting very challenging events.

I agree with you here. While most of the classes I've attended over the years haven't been "accuracy" oriented, the level of marksmanship in the classes is often pretty low. I'm not claiming to be the best shooter in the world, but I'm always near the top of all these classes... which makes me wonder what these other guys are practicing. For example, I was able to shoot circles around everyone in a class at SIG that included MA State Police firearms instructors. At a class at Blackwater, I mopped up a whole bunch of supposed high speed low drag military guys. The only guy who was able to barely edge me out was a former military contractor who is the current CEO/President of STI International. Like I said, I'm not a championship shooter by any stretch, which is kind of my point. It's not that I'm all that good at all... it's just that it seems like the bar is set pretty low.

When I teach new shooters, I'm very careful to try to make sure that I'm doing the right thing FOR THEM, not me. I've seen enough instructors pull that nonsense that you mentioned about "this is the way to do it because" so-and-so person or so-and-so agency does it this way. New shooters just want to know how to make the little ball of lead go where they want it to go... they don't care about debating the merits of modified isosceles versus weaver versus whatever. It seems like too many instructors spend 90% of the class trying to prove how good they are and 10% of the class actually helping.

Thanks for a good post saleen322. You make a lot of good points.

[dave_hardy]

Reader warning:

Your instructor states he/she is a competitive shooter: Saying someone is a competitive shooter is like saying they play stick-and-ball sports. You are thinking major league baseball and the truth may be closer to backyard croquet. All shooting sports are not created equal. Americans probably have more firearms per capita than any other country but, as a county, we can’t shoot very well; particularly with pistols. If you doubt that, look at a PPC target and compare it to Free Pistol target. Comparing apples and oranges? Maybe, but the highest American finisher in the 2011 International World Championship in Free Pistol was 36th place. These are America’s best International shooters! As a country we do well at the “big target” shooting (some are excellent for teaching concealed gun handling) but not so good with the precision Olympic events that require a high level of shooting skill. Still doubt it, look at the Olympic Gold (or any) Medal Pistol winners and see how many are from the USA.

Wow, just wow. Since there are different disciplines of shooting, labeling Americans as bad shots is painting with a really large brush. But, if you want to look at American world championship medal counts in the different Olympic disciplines, here you go.

25 metre pistol = 3rd
50 metre pistol = 6th
Trap = 3rd
Double Trap = 2nd
Skeet = 2nd
25 metre rapid fire pistol = 3rd
25 metre center-fire pistol = 2nd
25 metre standard pistol = 5th
10 metre air rifle = 3rd

I think you get the idea. Pretty darn consistent across disciplines. Now, for the big targets. Sure, IDPA and USPSA/IPSC targets are large, but, hits are scored based on placement and time penalties are assessed. To say that defensive shooting requires little skill, tells me you either don't under the rules, have never shot these events, or are a typical bulleye elitist (no wonder the discipline is dying) . Also, these events combine accuracy, speed, and movement (both shooter and targets).

If you want to look at the world events in those two disciplines, when the American teams are there everyone else is shooing for second. Further, the large target speed shooting disciplines are the fastest growing in this country. While traditional bullseye shooting is not able to attract enough new shooters to replace the ones that leave, the defensive styles are seeing double digit growth each year. Some this growth is due the use of easily obtainable and available stock equipment. Someone can be fully competitive in IDPA or USPSA with an investment of less than $1000 - try buying an Olympic airgun for under $4000.

As for displaying credentials online. It's the internet. Brad Paisley has a great music video you should watch, it's called Online.


I've encounter this attitude at some clubs. The "if you don't shooting bulleye, you ain't sh*t" attitude. It kills a club, is pushes away new shooters and divides a sport. I don't shoot bullseye, but, I don't knock the discipline. I shoot IDPA, steel, and USPSA. I like defensive shooting, I like the practicality, the speed, the movement, and the ever changing stages. I've never won an event, but I won some stages and had more than a few top 5 finishes.

The shooting sports offer more than enough for every taste. Looking down your nose or talking down certain disciplines does not thing to further the shooting sports and grow our numbers. I'd love for you to try a steel or IDPA event, then you can see just how unskilled, and poor of marksmen we are. Listening to the buzzer go and watching a guy take down 5 different sized targets, at varying distances, in 1.3 seconds is pretty impressive.

[saleen322]

Wow, just wow. Since there are different disciplines of shooting, labeling Americans as bad shots is painting with a really large brush. But, if you want to look at American world championship medal counts in the different Olympic disciplines, here you go.

25 metre pistol = 3rd
50 metre pistol = 6th
Trap = 3rd
Double Trap = 2nd
Skeet = 2nd
25 metre rapid fire pistol = 3rd
25 metre center-fire pistol = 2nd
25 metre standard pistol = 5th
10 metre air rifle = 3rd

I think you get the idea. Pretty darn consistent across disciplines. Now, for the big targets. Sure, IDPA and USPSA/IPSC targets are large, but, hits are scored based on placement and time penalties are assessed. To say that defensive shooting requires little skill, tells me you either don't under the rules, have never shot these events, or are a typical bulleye elitist (no wonder the discipline is dying) . Also, these events combine accuracy, speed, and movement (both shooter and targets).

If you want to look at the world events in those two disciplines, when the American teams are there everyone else is shooing for second. Further, the large target speed shooting disciplines are the fastest growing in this country. While traditional bullseye shooting is not able to attract enough new shooters to replace the ones that leave, the defensive styles are seeing double digit growth each year. Some this growth is due the use of easily obtainable and available stock equipment. Someone can be fully competitive in IDPA or USPSA with an investment of less than $1000 - try buying an Olympic airgun for under $4000.

As for displaying credentials online. It's the internet. Brad Paisley has a great music video you should watch, it's called Online.


I've encounter this attitude at some clubs. The "if you don't shooting bulleye, you ain't sh*t" attitude. It kills a club, is pushes away new shooters and divides a sport. I don't shoot bullseye, but, I don't knock the discipline. I shoot IDPA, steel, and USPSA. I like defensive shooting, I like the practicality, the speed, the movement, and the ever changing stages. I've never won an event, but I won some stages and had more than a few top 5 finishes.

The shooting sports offer more than enough for every taste. Looking down your nose or talking down certain disciplines does not thing to further the shooting sports and grow our numbers. I'd love for you to try a steel or IDPA event, then you can see just how unskilled, and poor of marksmen we are. Listening to the buzzer go and watching a guy take down 5 different sized targets, at varying distances, in 1.3 seconds is pretty impressive.

You appear a little sensitive and you seem to be a little challenged with detail. What part of, “particularly with pistols” or Olympic Gold (or any) medals, tripped you up? Ok, I think the last US Olympic Rapid Fire Medal was a Gold by Bill McMillian in 1960 and the last US Free Pistol Olympic medal was a Bronze in 1956. Now in 2008 the US got a Bronze in Air Pistol along with a silver in 1988, clearly our best showing. I think that falls a little short of world domination. Now I was unable to find ANY reference in my post to IDPA and USPSA/IPSC or steel anything. Did you make that up? The only big target competition I identified was NRA PPC, Police Pistol Combat that uses B-27 targets that I mentioned I do shoot.

Oh,FYI: World Cup Munich: Men's 50m Free Pistol & Women's 25m Sport Pistol COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (June 19, 2011)
Top ranked Tomoyuki Matsuda of Japan won the gold medal in the Men’s 50m Pistol event at the International Shooting Sport Federation (ISSF) World Cup Munich. Matsuda shot 568 qualification points to tie with Serbia’s Andrija Zlatic. In a heated battled, Matsuda pulled ahead with 97.7 points in the final to finish with 655.7 points for the top of the podium. Zlatic shot 94.9 points in the final for a total of 662.9 points and the silver medal. The bronze medalist was Italy’s Giuseppe Giordano with 562 qualification points and 97.6 points in the final for 659.6 total points. The USA’s Jason Turner (Rochester, N.Y., pictured) finished in thirty-sixth place with 551 points. Teammates Nick Mowrer (Butte, Mont.) finished with 549 points and Sergeant First Class Daryl Szarenski shot 541 points.In Women’s 25m Sport Pistol, Jing Yuan of China shot up in the final to win the gold medal. Yuan shot 582 qualification points and faced a two point deficit headed into the final. With the highest score in the final of 205.8, she claimed the gold medal with 787.8 total points.Maria Grozdeva of Bulgaria was the silver medalist with 584 qualification points and 203.3 points in the final for a total of 787.3 points. Lenka Maruskova of the Czech Republic won the bronze medal with 584 qualification points and 202 points in the final for 786 total points. The USA Shooting Team’s Petty Office First Class Sandra Uptagrafft (Los Angeles, Calif.) shot 568 qualification points to finish in the middle of the field. Teammate Teresa Meyer (Dearborn, Mich.) finished with 562 points.

Please review that with Brad Paisley and let me know if it checks out.

I think we, as a country, could do better but we don’t have a real good development system currently. Now as far as my credentials, ouch; I spent a lot of time making all of that up! Again, channel Brad and see what the tea leaves reveal.

Now this was all tongue in cheek up to here but I am serious about this. The folks I have met in shooting events have been some of the finest people anywhere, they are the best. And the tougher the competition, the nicer the people seem to be. They go out of their way to help everyone. So it makes me wonder how much shooting competition you do?

[dave_hardy]

You appear a little sensitive and you seem to be a little challenged with detail. What part of, “particularly with pistols” or Olympic Gold (or any) medals, tripped you up? Ok, I think the last US Olympic Rapid Fire Medal was a Gold by Bill McMillian in 1960 and the last US Free Pistol Olympic medal was a Bronze in 1956. Now in 2008 the US got a Bronze in Air Pistol along with a silver in 1988, clearly our best showing. I think that falls a little short of world domination. Now I was unable to find ANY reference in my post to IDPA and USPSA/IPSC or steel anything. Did you make that up? The only big target competition I identified was NRA PPC, Police Pistol Combat that uses B-27 targets that I mentioned I do shoot.

Oh,FYI: World Cup Munich: Men's 50m Free Pistol & Women's 25m Sport Pistol COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (June 19, 2011)
Top ranked Tomoyuki Matsuda of Japan won the gold medal in the Men’s 50m Pistol event at the International Shooting Sport Federation (ISSF) World Cup Munich. Matsuda shot 568 qualification points to tie with Serbia’s Andrija Zlatic. In a heated battled, Matsuda pulled ahead with 97.7 points in the final to finish with 655.7 points for the top of the podium. Zlatic shot 94.9 points in the final for a total of 662.9 points and the silver medal. The bronze medalist was Italy’s Giuseppe Giordano with 562 qualification points and 97.6 points in the final for 659.6 total points. The USA’s Jason Turner (Rochester, N.Y., pictured) finished in thirty-sixth place with 551 points. Teammates Nick Mowrer (Butte, Mont.) finished with 549 points and Sergeant First Class Daryl Szarenski shot 541 points.In Women’s 25m Sport Pistol, Jing Yuan of China shot up in the final to win the gold medal. Yuan shot 582 qualification points and faced a two point deficit headed into the final. With the highest score in the final of 205.8, she claimed the gold medal with 787.8 total points.Maria Grozdeva of Bulgaria was the silver medalist with 584 qualification points and 203.3 points in the final for a total of 787.3 points. Lenka Maruskova of the Czech Republic won the bronze medal with 584 qualification points and 202 points in the final for 786 total points. The USA Shooting Team’s Petty Office First Class Sandra Uptagrafft (Los Angeles, Calif.) shot 568 qualification points to finish in the middle of the field. Teammate Teresa Meyer (Dearborn, Mich.) finished with 562 points.

Please review that with Brad Paisley and let me know if it checks out.

I think we, as a country, could do better but we don’t have a real good development system currently. Now as far as my credentials, ouch; I spent a lot of time making all of that up! Again, channel Brad and see what the tea leaves reveal.

Now this was all tongue in cheek up to here but I am serious about this. The folks I have met in shooting events have been some of the finest people anywhere, they are the best. And the tougher the competition, the nicer the people seem to be. They go out of their way to help everyone. So it makes me wonder how much shooting competition you do?

The typical elitist bullseye shooter attitude. No wonder that discipline is dying off. As for your lists of so called credentials, they are just unsupported internet claims. For all we know, that list was copy pasted from who know where.

He's a protip for you. If you want the the shooting sports to grow, you need to stop talking down to people, lose the elitist attitude, and you could take a lesson or two from the defensive shooting guys. They're the one who are growing their sports at 15%-20% a year. I've never heard a single IDPA or USPSA shooter talk down any other discipline. Trash talking the other styles is not much of sales technique for growing your own style. I wish you bulleyes guys would get "it" and stop damaging the shooting sports. The silver lining here is that you're dying off and each year there are few of you to do damage. I guess your whole first post was kind of a last gasp desperation attempt trash the growing disciplines in hope of recruiting more people. Go back and read what you wrote, see if you think someone would want to shoot with someone who talks down to people and trashes other shooters. You're more than welcome to come to an IDPA or USPSA event, I'll even pay your entry fee and travel costs, when you don't win the event, them maybe you'll stop calling us all a bunch of unskilled shooters.

You should really watch the Paisley video, here a sample of the lyrics:

I work down at the Pizza Pit
And I drive an old Hyundai
I still live with my mom and dad
I'm 5 foot 3 and overweight
I'm a scifi fanatic
A mild asthmatic
And I've never been to second base
But there's whole ‘nother me
That you need to see
Go checkout MySpace

'Cause online I'm out in Hollywood
I'm 6 foot 5 and I look damn good
I drive a Maserati
I'm a black-belt in karate
And I love a good glass of wine
It turns girls on that I’m mysterious
I tell them I don't want nothing serious
'Cause even on a slow day
I could have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I’m so much cooler online
So much cooler online

[ARay]

You can't post about how important fundamentals and accuracy are on an internet gun forum and expect to not get flamed.

Most gun forums only exist to discuss why I don't need training, why my cheap knockoff is better than the high quality standard, and how to effectively survive the end of civilization.

Nice try bud, I'm going to go read a Tapco catalog and buy a Taurus Judge.

[tacticalreload]

The typical elitist bullseye shooter attitude. No wonder that discipline is dying off. As for your lists of so called credentials, they are just unsupported internet claims. For all we know, that list was copy pasted from who know where.

He's a protip for you. If you want the the shooting sports to grow, you need to stop talking down to people, lose the elitist attitude, and you could take a lesson or two from the defensive shooting guys. They're the one who are growing their sports at 15%-20% a year. I've never heard a single IDPA or USPSA shooter talk down any other discipline. Trash talking the other styles is not much of sales technique for growing your own style. I wish you bulleyes guys would get "it" and stop damaging the shooting sports. The silver lining here is that you're dying off and each year there are few of you to do damage. I guess your whole first post was kind of a last gasp desperation attempt trash the growing disciplines in hope of recruiting more people. Go back and read what you wrote, see if you think someone would want to shoot with someone who talks down to people and trashes other shooters. You're more than welcome to come to an IDPA or USPSA event, I'll even pay your entry fee and travel costs, when you don't win the event, them maybe you'll stop calling us all a bunch of unskilled shooters.

Maybe I missed the "elitist" part of his post. Okay, so he listed his credentials and they mean nothing to you. Take them with a grain of salt. Let's suppose he is a short, fat asthmatic with a junky car. Seems to me that his advice is sound... he says learn fundamentals before worrying about getting all fast. At no point did I see any reference to IDPA or USPSA participants as "a bunch of unskilled shooters." In fact, I saw no reference to IDPA or USPSA at all.

As for all the nice and friendly shooters in these various types of competition... I've at least tried shooting IDPA, USPSA, bullseye, knock down steel, static steel, 3 gun, trap, sporting clays, bowling pins, and probably a few others that I'm forgetting. On the whole, almost all shooters are nice and friendly people. However, where I have seen the most bickering and angry complaining is probably at USPSA matches. Next is probably IDPA. In fact, the last time I shot an IDPA match was at a NJ State match a number of years ago... a guy was literally yelling at an RO running a stage because he was given a FTDR for being too gamey. Later on that day, I saw someone get a procedural and then throw an empty mag in disgust. The whole thing left such a bad taste in my mouth that I haven't bothered to go back yet.

Now I'm not claiming that there are more jerks shooting action competitions than with bullseye. In all fairness, I've gone to way more IDPA matches than any other type of match. I'm sure if I attended enough bullseye or high power matches, I'd see the same thing. But when it comes to people talking down about other shooting disciplines, I see plenty of USPSA shooters discrediting IDPA shooters as being the lowest common denominator in action shooting. And I hear a lot of IDPA shooters say how USPSA is just a worthless game where it's all about spending the most money on the best equipment in order to get a competitive advantage and the only reason they are so fast is because of comps and red dots and 25 round mags and $300 holsters. The whole reason IDPA is even around is because a group of IPSC shooters were unhappy, and that line of "equipment race" is still what you hear today if you ask a lot of IDPA-only shooters to describe USPSA.

[new_shooter]

Should I take this post personally?

Actually, yes I should. I chose my name because I need to learn, and not let my ego get in the way.

Thanks for an informative post. I'm not a pistol shooter (yet.) Can I look forward to something similar in rifles?