Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Washington township preemption violation

    I just get done with Waynesboro and what do I notice, Washington Township is in violation.
    Here is a copy of an email that I just sent to the Washington Township board.

    To the Washington Township board chairman and supervisors,


    I was enjoying Pine Hill park this afternoon as I've done many times. On my way out of the park I happened to stop at the information board and read the park rules and regulations. I noticed that rule (K) in section 1 (acts and conducts prohibited) states that the possession and discharge of firearms is prohibited within the park. I then stopped by Red Run park and noticed the same regulation (M).

    This regulation, specifically the rule concerning the possession of firearms, is unlawful and in violation of PA Consolidated Statute 18, chapter 61, subchapter A (uniform firearms act), section 6120 (limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition), which states:
    (a). General rule:
    No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

    I assume Washington Township park regulations were written and posted before PA C.S 18, section 6120 came into effect in 1995, regardless, the township has been and continues to be in violation of state law.

    In the event of an encounter between a law abiding citizen who is legally exercising their 2nd ammendment rights and a township official who is enforcing what is essentually an unlawful regulation, there could be substantial liability for the township and township officials. As you can imagine, it would benefit the township to correct this violation as soon as possible.

    If you have any questions concerning this matter please feel free to contact me. I prefer that we communicate through email so that there is a written record of any correspondence. As a courtesy, please keep me informed.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    Sincerely,
    Ray Huffman
    Last edited by ray h; November 11th, 2011 at 09:45 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Yikes...
    I have a feeling this is going to get nasty. I think I'll let him dig the hole for now. Here is a reply email I just recieved from the township chairman (Steve Kulla). Im getting the feeling this guy is a bit unprofessional.
    First off, the name on the email is "from -Me".
    His reply was simply:
    "Please advise of your address in the township."

    My reply:

    Mr. Kullalaw,
    My address is irrelevant, although, I have been candid with my identity, I'm sure you have the resources to find my address if you feel you must.
    Thank you for the quick reply, I trust the issue at hand will be resolved in a similar manner.

    Sincerely,
    Ray Huffman
    Last edited by ray h; November 13th, 2011 at 01:44 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Wow, that's some reply! Looks like you can keep your cool, though. I would have been tempted to tell him to eat sh*t. I guess in his opinion, only people who live in a particular municipality have a reason to be concerned or take action against violations of the law by officials of that municipality.

    Rep to you. Keep us informed
    Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? - J.R.R. Tolkien

    http://www.compassion.com/ See how God loves children

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Quote Originally Posted by ROCK-IT3 View Post
    I guess in his opinion, only people who live in a particular municipality have a reason to be concerned or take action against violations of the law by officials of that municipality.
    That's always puzzled me a bit, as I'm sure they won't ignore any violation of their ordinances (legal or illegal) simply because the offender is not a resident.

    If they need someone with 'standing' to challenge this issue, I'm sure the citation of non-township resident can be arranged.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Here is an update on what has been happening in Washington Township as far as preemption violations in the parks. I copied it straight from my email so read from the bottom email. The beef is in blue.
    Re: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.
    TO: 1 More1 recipientCC: 1 recipientYou 1 MoreBCC: recipientYou
    Hide Details FROM:Ray Huffman TO:jbgeesaman CC:steve@kullalaw.com Message flagged Saturday, November 19, 2011 12:12 PMMessage body
    Mr. Geesaman,
    Thank you for keeping me informed and thank you for helping me bring this to the board's attention.
    I understand that these things can take some time. I'm happy that the issue was discussed and I'm confident in a resolution.
    As a fellow gun owner and a LTCF holder, I consider myself to be pro second amendment but I also know that "gun control" and second amendment issues can be tricky subjects for government and political officials to deal with, fortunitely this particular issue isn't really about what I want, or what you or anyone else wants, its simply about what the commonwealth requires by law.
    I have to be honest, when I recieved the initial reply from Mr. Kulla, I thought "here we go, this is going to get ugly". An apparent misjudgement on my part and I'm certainly glad that this doesn't seem to be the case.

    Sincerely,
    Ray Huffman
    From: jbgeesaman <jbgeesaman@gmail.com>
    To: 'Ray Huffman' <bnrhuffman@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 4:31 PM
    Subject: RE: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.


    Mr. Huffman,

    We had a Township meeting last night. It was a workshop meeting where we talk about things that are coming up at our next business meeting which in this case is this Monday at 7:00. Your information was shared as well as the report I asked our solicitor for was shared with the entire Board and our Manager. I believe this issue will be resolved quickly. We do not vote on items at workshop meetings even though they are open to the public and have the Press present. I was correct in my assumption that resolutions were passed on the signs and they too will need changed. That really isn't a big deal like it may sound. It's just a necessary step that Township must go through. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.


    From: Ray Huffman [mailto:bnrhuffman@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:13 PM
    To: jbgeesaman
    Subject: Re: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.

    Mr. Geesaman,
    Thank you for the thoughtful and informative email.
    I haven't been politically active or lived in Washington township very long. I apologize that I'm not familiar with board members or aware of the board rules regarding the discussion of board items.
    I just may attend a public meeting but I'm not sure how important that would be considering that this matter isn't really an issue between myself and the township as much as it is between the township and the commonwealth .
    I'm confident that once the manager, members and solictor become familiar with the statute, it will be clear that the township is currently in violation and will need to change the park regulation to become in compliance.

    Sincerely,
    Ray Huffman


    From: jbgeesaman <jbgeesaman@gmail.com>
    To: 'Ray Huffman' <bnrhuffman@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 10:35 AM
    Subject: RE: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.

    Mr. Huffman,

    I am as you may know the newest member of the Township Board of Supervisors
    and I am unaware of when the signs were placed or if there is a resolution
    adopted by a previous Board prior to installing them. I am however as a gun
    owner, hunter, recreation shooter and concealed weapons permit holder, very
    concerned that Washington Township does nothing to be in conflict with
    current PA Fire Arms regulations and the rights of our Citizens. I apologize
    that I am not familiar with the regulation you have provided yet but I have
    already passed the information to both the Township Manager and Solicitor to
    investigate the matter. As you may know the Board Members are not allowed to
    discuss this matter between ourselves with more than 2 at a time so this
    will not be able to have full Board discussion except at regularly scheduled
    public meetings. You are welcome to attend these meetings. The first of
    these meetings is Wednesday evening at 7. You can see our web site at
    www.washtwp-franklin.org/ for other scheduled meetings. Please do not
    hesitate to contact me or any other Board Member of the Board of
    Supervisors.

    Thank you,
    Jeff Geesaman


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Ray Huffman [mailto:bnrhuffman@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:36 PM
    To: steve@kullalaw.com
    Cc: jbgeesaman@gmail.com; supervisor@carrollsturm.com;
    gladhillsupervisor@yahoo.com; gormansupervisor@comcast.net
    Subject: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.

    To the Washington Township board chairman and supervisors,


    I was enjoying Pine Hill park this afternoon as I've done many times. On
    my way out of the park I happened to stop at the information board and read
    the park rules and regulations. I noticed that rule (K) in section 1 (acts
    and conducts prohibited) states that the possession and discharge of
    firearms is prohibited within the park. I then stopped by Red Run park and
    noticed the same regulation (M).

    This regulation, specifically the rule concerning the possession of
    firearms, is unlawful and in violation of PA Consolidated Statute 18,
    chapter 61, subchapter A (uniform firearms act), section 6120 (limitation on
    the regulation of firearms and ammunition), which states:
    (a). General rule:
    No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful
    ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or
    ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not
    prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.
    I assume Washington Township park regulations were written and posted
    before PA C.S 18, section 6120 came into effect in 1995, regardless, the
    township has been and continues to be in violation of state law.
    In the event of an encounter between a law abiding citizen who is
    legally exercising their 2nd ammendment rights and a township official who
    is enforcing what is essentually an unlawful regulation, there could be
    substantial liability for the township and township officials. As you can
    imagine, it would benefit the township to correct this violation as soon as
    possible.
    If you have any questions concerning this matter please feel free to
    contact me. I prefer that we communicate through email so that there is a
    written record of any correspondence. As a courtesy, please keep me
    informed.

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    Sincerely,
    Ray Huffman

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Ray, thanks for keeping on top of this. Also, I like the way you have stressed in your correspondence that it is not an issue between you and the township, but between the township and existing State law. Good approach.

    Rock-it3
    Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? - J.R.R. Tolkien

    http://www.compassion.com/ See how God loves children

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Quote Originally Posted by ROCK-IT3 View Post
    Ray, thanks for keeping on top of this. Also, I like the way you have stressed in your correspondence that it is not an issue between you and the township, but between the township and existing State law. Good approach.

    Rock-it3
    Hopefully they follow through on things. Ive been watching Waynesboro (I have been trying to get them to correct their violation for a couple of months now) and apparently Waynesboro board voted to change their park rules but I havent seen them do it yet. I hope Washington township doesnt turn into the same thing. From the sound of it, they may get right on it.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Updated email I just got from the board, and my reply to that email. Email sent to me is the bottom one, then my reply is on top.

    Re: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.

    FROM:Ray Huffman

    TO:jbgeesaman CC:steve@kullalaw.com supervisor@carrollsturm.com gladhillsupervisor@yahoo.com gormansupervisor@comcast.net

    Message flagged Monday, November 21, 2011 10:05 PMMessage body

    Thank you and all of the board members. I truely feel proud to be a resident of Washington Township.
    Before I brought the matter to the board, I did some reading and researching of other municipalities and townships who were made aware of Uniform Firearms Act violations. What I found much of the time were stories of local officials who were resistant, and in some cases just plain pissed off, so I really didnt know what to expect. I'm pleasantly surprised and very satisfied with the way this was handled.
    Again, nice job.

    Sincerely,
    Ray Huffman


    From: jbgeesaman <jbgeesaman@gmail.com>
    To: 'Ray Huffman' <bnrhuffman@yahoo.com>; steve@kullalaw.com
    Cc: supervisor@carrollsturm.com; gladhillsupervisor@yahoo.com; gormansupervisor@comcast.net
    Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:48 PM
    Subject: RE: Township parks in violation of PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act.

    Mr. Huffman,

    Tonight at the regular Washington Township Board of Supervisors Business
    Meeting the Board unanimously approved revised resolutions concerning the
    rules and regulation of our recreational parks. These changes make the
    rules and regulations in compliance with the PA CS 18 Uniform firearms act
    and the signs will be changed accordingly. Thank you for bringing this to
    our attention.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    well done thank you

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Washington township preemption violation

    Resolution 528, 529, 530 and 531 have been added. The word "possession" has been removed from previous park resolutions.
    http://www.washtwp-franklin.org/content/view/107/135/
    Nice job to Washington Township for fixing this quickly and with no objections.

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