Help transfer firearms

[00snuffy]

My friend was recently involuntarily committed to a mental hospital, she was 302'd 303'd then 304'd. She just found out she has to transfer her firearms to someone not living in her house within 60 days. It was been 6 months. What can she do now? Can she just give them to her father in law? Or is she S.O.L?

[FromMyColdDeadHands]

Long arms can be given to anyone not otherwise prohibited from ownership. Handguns MUST be transferred through FFL. However there may be specific rules regarding proof of transfer for psych./criminal charges transfers. I don't know, the best way to cover her ass would be to have some documentation of transfer (bill of sale or copy of 4473).

[red dog]

ditto, frommycolddeadhands. if you do ftf trans on longarms do yourself a favor and get some form of documentation from the buyer, padl or pa ltcf. this is a cya moment. if the buyer is not willing move on.

[BimmerJon]

Handguns MUST be transferred through an FFL.

Not true. "MUST" is absolute. There are ways to transfer firearms in PA without going through an FFL. You can have a Sheriff process the transfer or a person could transfer between spouses, grandparents, grandchildren or parent or child with no paperwork.

[donm]

Not true. "MUST" is absolute. There are ways to transfer firearms in PA without going through an FFL. You can have a Sheriff process the transfer or a person could transfer between spouses, grandparents, grandchildren or parent or child with no paperwork.

I keep seeing this and I know that a transfer by a sheriff, but is anyone aware of a sheriff that will actually do it? My sheriff's office is inside the courthouse -- as I suspect many others are as well given their duties in Pennsylvania -- making it pretty much physically impossible, even if the sheriff is willing.

[BimmerJon]

I keep seeing this and I know that a transfer by a sheriff, but is anyone aware of a sheriff that will actually do it? My sheriff's office is inside the courthouse -- as I suspect many others are as well given their duties in Pennsylvania -- making it pretty much physically impossible, even if the sheriff is willing.

That may be true, but it's still important to state the facts and current law correctly.

[str8shooter]

My friend was recently involuntarily committed to a mental hospital, she was 302'd 303'd then 304'd. She just found out she has to transfer her firearms to someone not living in her house within 60 days. It was been 6 months. What can she do now? Can she just give them to her father in law? Or is she S.O.L?

Does she have any parents, grandparents, children or grandchildren who are not prohibited? She can gift all her guns to immediate familys member +/- 2 generations "who is not a member of the prohibited person's household" w/o a FFL holder or formal transfer.

As far as missing the 60 day deadline, it has been successfully argued as an affirmative defense that a newly prohibited person did not have a "reasonable amount of time" to dispose of their guns for reasons including, but not limited to, being incarcerated or involuntarily committed to a psychiatric facility.

[Xringshooter]

IANAL (but I do stay in Holiday Inn Expresses a lot in my travels ) but here is what I know (I was involved with this type of situation).

The big thing is the 302, because of that there are certain things that have to happen by law. In all cases, whoever gets control of the guns, they cannot return them to the owner until the court gives the ok. Although it has been longer than 60 days, I believe that if something was said, she would have a defense in that she may not have been able to get it done (she may not have been mentally capable of doing it and whoever was acting in her behalf may not have know about the requirement to get the guns out)

If a person has to dispose of their guns (read, have some else hold them for them) that can be done several ways. If they know someone that is not a prohibited person, the sheriffs dept or the local PD can inventory the guns (they have a special form for this) and the person who is going to store them signs for them and can then take them to be stored. The person doing the storage does not have to have any of them transferred to them through a FFL, even the handguns. However, the person storing the guns cannot do anything with them other than store them. They cannot take them out to shoot them, etc. The person storing them also has the responsibility to not return the guns to the owner until allowed by the court.

The person could also give them, with no paperwork required, to their mother or father or grandmother or grandfather, even the handguns. These people are also not allowed to return the guns to the owner (or allow the owner access to them) until allowed by the court. I also think that someone (court, sheriff, PD) has to know where they are being stored.

The person relinquishing the guns cannot give them (handguns) to siblings without the paperwork from the PD or Sheriff or by transferring them at a FFL. They can give the long arms to the siblings without any paperwork. Again in the case of a 302, someone has to know what is going on with the guns.

All that said, the original owner can give them to the people listed above and tell them to sell them for them. In this case, a signed document stating that this is what is going to happen should be initiated, maybe something like a consignment form or power of attorney so that in the case of the handguns, the PoA holder can sign the transfer portion of the paperwork (SP4-113).

Again, in all the cases above, it may still be necessary to complete some type of documentation to show the authorities what the disposition was of the owners guns.

I have first hand knowledge of this as I have been through it. A few years ago a person I knew was in this situation and a friend of his said he would store them for him. The State College PD (or it might have been the Centre Co Sheriff office, I would have to look at the paperwork, which I still have), collected the guns, did the inventory and the friend took the guns to his house. Included were 6 or 7 handguns and they did not have to be transferred through a FFL. After a short period of time, the friend was not comfortable holding the guns so he asked me, with the ok from the guy who owned the guns to hold the guns ( I happen to be a FFL). I signed the paperwork stating that I would hold the guns and not allow the original owner any access to them until allowed by the court. I even picked up one that was being held by the SCPD. Ultimately, the original owner asked me to sell them for him, which I did (actually listed many here on the forum).

It can be a convoluted mess when this happens. The people involved just have to think things through and it can go smoothly. In a case like this, as long as there was nothing illegal going on, don't let the law enforcement people keep the guns, and don't allow them to say that THEY have to keep the guns, this just isn't true.

[FromMyColdDeadHands]

Ah geez...I forgot about that exception. I was thinking of transfers between non-family members. The point I was trying to make is simply that in a case like that there will likely need to be REAL documentation of transfer to satisfy the court.

Yes you are right, no transfer needed between some family members and sheriffs can (though I don't know of any that do) transfer for you.

[00snuffy]

You said no documentation needed between some family members for handguns? If so can she give them to her father-in-law? If so should they go to a lawyer to get an official letter saying he wont release them back to her?