J-frame springs

**PhilB** · November 6th, 2011, 09:42 PM

I'm sure this path is well-trodden, but I can't find anything in the archives....

I'd like to upgrade the spring kit in my mod. 442. Apex Tactical sells an upgrade kit with hammer spring, rebound spring and firing pin kit. Midway sells a Wolff kit with a range of springs, so some tuning is possible.

Which is the better way to go, and, do I need the firing pin and spring in the Apex kit?

I'd like to reduce the trigger pull to something a bit more comfortable.

--Phil

**Steve_NEPhila** · November 6th, 2011, 09:50 PM

You do not need a firing pin spring unless you change the firing pin, and I would not recommend it. The rebound spring is more important to change than the main spring in a revolver for trigger pressure, and if you are not expert under the sideplate of a smith and wesson revolver, I would not try it.

You cannot really significantly lower the spring pressure of a J frame without risking ignition issues. You would most likely be served with getting an action by a good gunsmith. Smooth is better than light in a J frame, I carry a 642 worked over by John Robinson and it is divine.

J frame revolvers are very difficult to shoot well, it is not the gun... it is you. They require lots and lots of practice to get good with. The short sight radius, small control surfaces, and stiff trigger pulls are difficult to shoot. Do not feel frustrated, see it as a project. If you get good with a J frame, you can shoot any handgun well.

**ar15jules** · November 6th, 2011, 09:54 PM

I installed the Apex duty/carry kit myself. No ignition problems to speak of. It was a bit intimidating at first looking under the hood.
Jules

**aryfrosty** · November 6th, 2011, 10:26 PM

I have always liked the Wolff springs and I have also had no trouble doing the work myself. I'm not trying to do the pros out of a job but it isn't always handy to wait to go to one when the winter is here and we're snowed in for a few days. I believe that one of the most important things to remember on any gun is to polish and not cut. A good set of fine hone stones is great. I just never change angles or amount of engagement. A new rebound spring couple with polishing the sides and bottom of the rebound spring slide will work wonders on a Smith. My smoothest are ones that I have polished a little...shot a little and then polished a little more. Never polish too much if you can help it. It's better to polish "not enough" and shoot it. Ignition problems start when you change the hammer, or main, spring. Any time you take the sideplate off a Smith the guns needs to be shot a good bit before being cleaned and carried for self defense. Regards.

**FJRMarty** · November 7th, 2011, 09:16 PM

I just did a spring change a few days ago, and posted this on another gun forum; hate to waste it.

I had no real issue with my 642 trigger weight, since this is a SD weapon not a bull's eye weapon. It is quite stout at 18-19#, but sending 25 or 30 rounds down range was not that big of a deal with me; however my wife had a tough time even with 2 fingers pulling the trigger more than a couple of times.

According to Wolff, the factory rebound spring is 18-lb, and the hammer spring is 8.5-lb. I can't measure it.

I ordered directly from Wolff Spring, a PA company!

16670 S&W RP REBOUND SPRING 11-15 ASSMT PAK Pak of 5
23808 S&W RP HAMMER SPRING 8LB PAK of 1

The Rebound Springs "Reduced Power" Assortment pack baggie has 11-lb, 12-lb, 13-lb, 14-lb, and 15-lb.

I installed the 12-lb rebound spring and the 8-lb hammer spring. I don't have a meter, but I would estimate the trigger pull is reduced about 1/4-1/3, so that makes it 12-13-lb. Wife dry-fired several times and she said it was much better. It is still a stout pull.

Pretty good how-to video here
Part 1

and here
Part 2
made the change easy to do.

I took my 642 to the range for a quick test. Wolff suggests rapid fire tests - dry and then live at the range first to see if anything jams. I read some discussions that mentioned concerns about reducing spring weights can cause some hard-primer rounds to misfire, or the gun to not cycle properly. I don't know what a hard primer looks like or who uses them or soft primers. I took what I had to the range.

I shot 10 (2 cylinder loads) each:
Fiocchi 130 gr. FMJ
Remington UMC 130 gr. MC
Federal 158 gr. LRN
Winchester White box 125 gr. +P JHP

This was my first time 'rapid-firing' all 5 shots at once, so while I did aim at the target I was more interested in reliable discharges. I had no issues, the cylinder went around and stopped at the right time, and the trigger reset just fine, almost every shot hit the paper, so I consider my 642 still a reliable SD carry firearm.

Now I have to get Sally to the range to try it out, and I need to get a few more rounds down range, sort of a second, verification test - not that I need an excuse to go to the range...

**PhilB** · December 11th, 2011, 09:02 AM

An update: I got a Wolff kit and installed the 8 lb. hammer spring and the 13 lb. rebound spring. While I was "inside" I polished the rebound slide on some 1500 grit paper and lubed everything.

The overall effort is much more comfortable, to the point the wife now approves. (She hates the gun.) I dry-fired it w/snap caps a few hundred times with no problems. I will try it with live ammo when I get a chance.

I have never had the sideplate off this gun, a post-lock 442. I'm familiar with the innerds of my other revolvers, older K and L-frames. Based on what I saw, I'd be hard-pressed to buy another new S&W revolver. There's something comforting about the hand-fitted, case-hardened parts found in an older gun that's just not there anymore. I'm sure the new MIM parts are fine, just not the same "soul". Probably the same reason I don't own any quartz watches.

--Phil

**pennlineman** · December 11th, 2011, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by PhilB

I have never had the sideplate off this gun, a post-lock 442. I'm familiar with the innerds of my other revolvers, older K and L-frames. Based on what I saw, I'd be hard-pressed to buy another new S&W revolver. There's something comforting about the hand-fitted, case-hardened parts found in an older gun that's just not there anymore. I'm sure the new MIM parts are fine, just not the same "soul". Probably the same reason I don't own any quartz watches.

--Phil

I felt much the same after taking a look inside my model 500. I never realized how much they changed things around in there. I'm not convinced it's for the better.