3 wrongs! What do you do?

**OwnTheRide** · November 4th, 2011, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by son of the revolution

Just curious, how much research have you done on the myriad of situations where pepper spray is ineffective or can even incapacitate the user inadvertently ? Nothing like helpfully blinding yourself for your attackers benefit

None, though that's not to say I'm unaware of the possibility. Now I'll flip it around on you: how much research have you done on the myriad of situations where a gun is ineffective or can even incapacitate the user inadvertently?

Hopefully my point here is clear. The OP is assuming that the person drawing the firearm will use it properly, in a way that will not harm the user, and that it will be effective. It's only fair that the same assumptions apply for the same user using pepper spray. Discussions to the contrary are best reserved for other threads.

**acosenza2** · November 4th, 2011, 04:47 PM

The goal at the end of my day is to return home to my pregnant wife no worse for the wear. In this situation, if the guy was making verbal threats I would see if I could retreat. If retreat was not an option and he decided to escalate the situation to the point of fearing for my life then I would have no choice but to shoot him.

I am not going to trade punches with the guy. One punch could cause you serious injury or death.

**scrantonman9mm** · November 4th, 2011, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by acosenza2

The goal at the end of my day is to return home to my pregnant wife no worse for the wear. In this situation, if the guy was making verbal threats I would see if I could retreat. If retreat was not an option and he decided to escalate the situation to the point of fearing for my life then I would have no choice but to shoot him.

I am not going to trade punches with the guy. One punch could cause you serious injury or death.

i agree with you! i am 168 lbs soaking wet and 5'5"... someone like this could definitely cause me serious bodily harm with a few punches!! im sure he could brake bones and if the state dont think thats serious harm then i dont know what is! the law says death or serious bodily harm so im guessing self defense will be justified in my case.
with that said i would aim at his chest and fire untill the threat is no longer threatening to me!!

**abner13** · November 5th, 2011, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by MrBear13

Big drunk guy with what is probably very little dexterity,

Hmmm , to much seems to be put into this point. Never said he was falling down drunk , or even staggering. But just had enough to become beligerant. Surely we all know at least one person who fits the "Add 2 beers for instant asshole!" catagory. Maybe even add some crank or PCP to the mix.

There have been many reports of such persons who had tried to take sidearms off cops in uniform. Some even succeeded and shot the cop.

Such people do these things on the spur of the moment. Seeing a readily available weapon might be tempting enough to kickstart the criminal mind. Perp just might pull a quick sucker-punch , and now you're out cold and he's well armed.

Just started this thread to provoke some thoughts about situational awareness. Too may people seem to open carry for the purpose of "freaking out the sheep". But ya just might be wave a red flag in front of the wrong bull one day.

**tabasco_joe** · November 5th, 2011, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by abner13

Hmmm , to much seems to be put into this point. Never said he was falling down drunk , or even staggering. But just had enough to become beligerant. Surely we all know at least one person who fits the "Add 2 beers for instant asshole!" catagory. Maybe even add some crank or PCP to the mix.

There have been many reports of such persons who had tried to take sidearms off cops in uniform. Some even succeeded and shot the cop.

Such people do these things on the spur of the moment. Seeing a readily available weapon might be tempting enough to kickstart the criminal mind. Perp just might pull a quick sucker-punch , and now you're out cold and he's well armed.

Just started this thread to provoke some thoughts about situational awareness. Too may people seem to open carry for the purpose of "freaking out the sheep". But ya just might be wave a red flag in front of the wrong bull one day.

I'm older than you are and I know my days of mixing it up in a situation like that and coming out on top is close to nil. That's why I don't OC in SE PA. In central Pa where I spend a bit of time it's more of an option I might choose. (In central Pa I'm not in populated areas that even have much more than a Sheetz and bars are few and far between.)

**son of the revolution** · November 5th, 2011, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by abner13

Hmmm , to much seems to be put into this point. Never said he was falling down drunk , or even staggering. But just had enough to become beligerant. Surely we all know at least one person who fits the "Add 2 beers for instant asshole!" catagory. Maybe even add some crank or PCP to the mix.

There have been many reports of such persons who had tried to take sidearms off cops in uniform. Some even succeeded and shot the cop.

Such people do these things on the spur of the moment. Seeing a readily available weapon might be tempting enough to kickstart the criminal mind. Perp just might pull a quick sucker-punch , and now you're out cold and he's well armed.

Just started this thread to provoke some thoughts about situational awareness. Too may people seem to open carry for the purpose of "freaking out the sheep". But ya just might be wave a red flag in front of the wrong bull one day.

If this is how you really think then..............

A) You should be easily able to produce posts from various people in OC related threads saying as much.

and

B) You really havent paid much attention to the numerous valid reasons people choose to OC. Carry however you like, hold whatever view point you choose to, but dont go down the road of projecting your perceptions onto other people without evidence to back up your assertions.

**abner13** · November 5th, 2011, 08:34 AM

Do you OC , in New Jersey?

Didn't think so.

**JAS104** · November 5th, 2011, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by acosenza2

The goal at the end of my day is to return home to my pregnant wife no worse for the wear. In this situation, if the guy was making verbal threats I would see if I could retreat. If retreat was not an option and he decided to escalate the situation to the point of fearing for my life then I would have no choice but to shoot him.

I am not going to trade punches with the guy. One punch could cause you serious injury or death.

Agree with the above. I would have made all reasonable attempts possible to leave the situation, be it get back into my car, or go into the store, and ignore the verbal threats. But if it came to me fearing for my life, and there is a direct threat of bodily harm or death to myself or others around, put him down.

**son of the revolution** · November 5th, 2011, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by abner13

Do you OC , in New Jersey?

Didn't think so.

First, what does that have to do with ANYTHING ????

Second I DO OC when Im in States that allow it. Usually PA

And Third, I DO in fact " OC " an empty holster EVERY DAY, EVERYWHERE I go in Jersey and have received significant hassles for doing so from LEO's that have been well documented here. And before you come back with some derisive snort about how OCing a holster isnt the same as OCing the real thing, think for a second about the perceived reaction you yourself claimed as a reason why people do it, in a State as Anti Gun as Jersey

Do you have a clue ?

Didnt think so