Nov 8th 2011 elections - FOAC Pro Gun voter guide

[soberbyker]

Soberbyker,

I can tell you for a fact that Spiros "Spike" E. Angelos Court of Common Pleas Delaware County is pro-2A. He is a close friend of the family's and has held many records in the under-18 divison of NRA competitions shooting 1911s. I can ask him if he ever got any of those questionaires or whatever else they claimed to have sent. If he got something he would have filled it out and sent it in. He is a life member of the NRA and has been since a child.

He is currently the Public Defender of Delco. I don't know if you've ever met any of the PDs but they are almost all Pro-2A as well. If you have any questions for me or him let me know I'll be sure to ask and get back to you.

I'll look up any info I can find, as usual there are no suitable candidates (at all) in DELCO in this election.

I still think if FOAC knows who isn't pro-gun they should list them, even if they didn't return the questionnaire.

.

.

[Activist]

PaGunner:

We don't make any 'claims' about sending out questionnaires as failing to do that would be fraud. EVERY legislator in PA will attest to our trustworthiness in conducting ourselves fairly and openly.

I do not doubt that you and your family know this individual but neither should you doubt us that we are telling the truth. We spend thousands of dollars each year surveying candidates for office and in this off year election cycle each candidate was sent 'at least' three questionnaires provided they had not already answered it.

Soberbyker,
I can tell you for a fact that Spiros "Spike" E. Angelos Court of Common Pleas Delaware County is pro-2A. He is a close friend of the family's and has held many records in the under-18 divison of NRA competitions shooting 1911s. I can ask him if he ever got any of those questionaires or whatever else they claimed to have sent. If he got something he would have filled it out and sent it in. He is a life member of the NRA and has been since a child.

He is currently the Public Defender of Delco. I don't know if you've ever met any of the PDs but they are almost all Pro-2A as well. If you have any questions for me or him let me know I'll be sure to ask and get back to you.

I posted those names to Soberbyker to specifically identify those who needed to submit a questionnaire and had not. We have nothing to hide and our records of expenditures are available on the Department of State website.

IF Mr. Angelos says that he did not receive our questionnaires then either the Bureau of Elections (where we are officially registered as a PAC) gave us the wrong address or he is not telling the truth.

We would greatly appreciate you asking him IF he received our questionnaires and IF he did why he chose not to answer it.

Kim Stolfer
FOAC Chairman

[MDJschool]

Is there a reason that county commissioners (and like) always show up on voter guides yet exceptional local officials do not? (I know there's not space, time, or money to vet many, let alone all, as they come up, but I figure if you compile a list of truly exceptional and exemplary candidates from what members have heard and let FOAC know of, then apply the standards that get applied to the rest of your candidates, and whittle it down to what you have room for...)

[Activist]

MDJschool,

From a standpoint of sheer practicality and space we have limited ourselves to county offices, for the most part. IF a gun owner brings a particular race to our attention in enough time to survey the candidates properly we 'will' consider specific races.

Is there a reason that county commissioners (and like) always show up on voter guides yet exceptional local officials do not? (I know there's not space, time, or money to vet many, let alone all, as they come up, but I figure if you compile a list of truly exceptional and exemplary candidates from what members have heard and let FOAC know of, then apply the standards that get applied to the rest of your candidates, and whittle it down to what you have room for...)

However, I do want to point out that we spend thousands of dollars in printing costs and postage now. IF more gun owners got involved we could expand our efforts even more. Unfortunately, too many gun owners sit on the sidelines watching politics and opportunity slip through their hands like the sands of time.

Interceding at all levels of politics is our ultimate goal and would be tremendously beneficial in the long run. But until gun owners stop poking me in the chest at gun shows and insisting on others to do the work for them we will have to take a measured approach as best suits our resources.

Kim Stolfer
Chairman, FOAC

[soberbyker]

MDJschool,

From a standpoint of sheer practicality and space we have limited ourselves to county offices, for the most part. IF a gun owner brings a particular race to our attention in enough time to survey the candidates properly we 'will' consider specific races.



However, I do want to point out that we spend thousands of dollars in printing costs and postage now. IF more gun owners got involved we could expand our efforts even more. Unfortunately, too many gun owners sit on the sidelines watching politics and opportunity slip through their hands like the sands of time.

Interceding at all levels of politics is our ultimate goal and would be tremendously beneficial in the long run. But until gun owners stop poking me in the chest at gun shows and insisting on others to do the work for them we will have to take a measured approach as best suits our resources.

Kim Stolfer
Chairman, FOAC

Not everyone has the time, money or desire to be an activist, but are still interested in voting along lines that suit their interests. Organizations like yours are helpful for those folks. Don't take the poking as an insult, but rather a barometer of what's important to them. Along the lines of MDJ's thinking it would be a great help to those of us not involved in politics, but want our voice heard via our vote, to have a list of known anti-gun politicians so in categories where there are no suitable candidates we don't blindly vote for someone who is an anti as opposed to someone who just didn't send in your form

.

[PaGunner]

I'll look up any info I can find, as usual there are no suitable candidates (at all) in DELCO in this election.

I still think if FOAC knows who isn't pro-gun they should list them, even if they didn't return the questionnaire.

.

Soberbyker,

I see that none are endorsed. I was just giving personal knowledge of one of the candidates whom I know for certain is Pro-2A. I agree that the FOAC should list candidates who are anti-gun.

PaGunner:

We don't make any 'claims' about sending out questionnaires as failing to do that would be fraud. EVERY legislator in PA will attest to our trustworthiness in conducting ourselves fairly and openly.

I do not doubt that you and your family know this individual but neither should you doubt us that we are telling the truth. We spend thousands of dollars each year surveying candidates for office and in this off year election cycle each candidate was sent 'at least' three questionnaires provided they had not already answered it.

I posted those names to Soberbyker to specifically identify those who needed to submit a questionnaire and had not. We have nothing to hide and our records of expenditures are available on the Department of State website.

IF Mr. Angelos says that he did not receive our questionnaires then either the Bureau of Elections (where we are officially registered as a PAC) gave us the wrong address or he is not telling the truth.

We would greatly appreciate you asking him IF he received our questionnaires and IF he did why he chose not to answer it.

Kim Stolfer
FOAC Chairman

Kim,

My intentions in my previous post were not to discredit you or the FOAC. It seems to me like you misunderstood my post. I don't know that Mr. Angelos ever received the questionnaires just as you don't know for a fact if he ever did. I looked on the Bureau of Elections to see what address was listed but such information wasn't available online.

My intentions were to give personal knowledge of a candidate to Soberbyker, ask if he had any questions, and find out if Mr. Angelos ever received the survey. I used the term "claims" because as mentioned above neither you nor I know for a fact he received the questionnaire, I don't doubt the fact that the FOAC sent them.

As I have mentioned I will find out if he did or didn't receive the questionnaires. I am telling you that if HE personally received the survey he would have filled it out and sent it in. I am guessing the address given was not his personal.

[phillyd2]

Not everyone has the time, money or desire to be an activist, but are still interested in voting along lines that suit their interests. Organizations like yours are helpful for those folks. Don't take the poking as an insult, but rather a barometer of what's important to them. Along the lines of MDJ's thinking it would be a great help to those of us not involved in politics, but want our voice heard via our vote, to have a list of known anti-gun politicians so in categories where there are no suitable candidates we don't blindly vote for someone who is an anti as opposed to someone who just didn't send in your form

.

Sorry to break it to you Bill, but if you vote you ARE a activist in the purest sense of the word. The "professionals" may try to dismiss you but there is no better title than citizen!

Carry on.

[Activist]

Soberbyker,

I agree that gun owners may not have points in their life where they can get involved directly. But please remember that, IF the numbers are accurate, there are between 3-5 'million' gun owners in PA. IF even 10% could give 8 hours of their time once a year in helping us track these people we would all be better off 'and' more well informed.

This is why we ask (plead) for feedback from gun owners on these candidates and incumbents so that we can be accurate or expand our coverage of politics.

Not everyone has the time, money or desire to be an activist, but are still interested in voting along lines that suit their interests. Organizations like yours are helpful for those folks. Don't take the poking as an insult, but rather a barometer of what's important to them. Along the lines of MDJ's thinking it would be a great help to those of us not involved in politics, but want our voice heard via our vote, to have a list of known anti-gun politicians so in categories where there are no suitable candidates we don't blindly vote for someone who is an anti as opposed to someone who just didn't send in your form

.

However, there is a concern here in that we 'must' be able to document positions we take. This can be as simple as a newspaper article, etc. Credibility is something that takes decades to build and can be lost in just one election cycle.

IF anyone has definite dirt on an incumbent OR a challenger in an election and can provide us with proof then we will create a separate web page just to track these political hacks who trifle with our freedoms.

Just as an aside, for the last four years we have been building a database on the PA Mayors Against Illegal Guns members and have been going after them one at a time. It has been, for the most part, successful but is terribly time consuming. This is another area that local gun owners can be very effective at as well.
I/we are human like everyone else and after having worked hundreds of gun shows and spent countless thousands of hours myself along with so many great volunteers the lost opportunities are frustrating. If gun owners from this forum actually worked a gun show with us and saw how disdainful and disrespectful gun owners are when you try to talk with them you would be shocked.

Everyone has a pet candidate or friend that they 'know' is pro-gun and that we weren't being fair to. Take for example a recent exchange over the Sheriff race in Snyder County where the incumbent returned a questionnaire that indicated he supported gun bans and multiple other anti-gun positions. We were berated for 'not' doing our homework on him and YET when challenged and shown the questionnaire we came to find out that this firearms dealer (of all people) knew he maintained these beliefs. Incredible!! Then the supporter of the Sheriff went out of his way to disparage FOAC and NOT take the time to educate this family friend on gun issues.

I could go on and on and on but if gun owners can help us gather data we can help educate other gun owners on politicians. Remember that we (FOAC) are ALL unpaid volunteers and a little discretion and restraint and respect goes a long way with us too.

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

Kim Stolfer
Chairman, FOAC

[WhiteFeather]

The Firearms Owners Against Crime (FOAC) Pro Gun voters are available

Click on the map for the zone in PA where you need a voter guide.

http://www.foac-pac.org/

Election day is Tuesday Nov 8th PLEASE GO VOTE the cemeteries are full of Vets that paid the price for US to help keep the freedom to vote.

If you want to pass out some extra pro gun voters guides on election day to other voters when they are walking in, always be respectful, and don't block or prevent access to polls.

You will be suprised at all the gun owners that are out there, that can use these as a guide on any given vote cast were they wern't sure.

[WhiteFeather]

NOV 8th ELECTION DAY

GO VOTE and make your voice heard!



When someone is running for office they can get a listing of all voters home address. When you are walking for a candidate. You only knock on door or drop of information literature at registered voters homes.

Some streets you go on in a subdivison might only have 2 or 3 homes out of 20 or 30 homes.

When it’s on a sat in hunting season and you see all the gun owners homes that are going or coming back from hunting that are not registered to even VOTE, let alone go vote it makes you sad.

You also start to understand why you and the rest of the silent majority of gun owners are not listen to by lots of politicians.

Former PA governor that signed more gun control than any other back in the 1990’s. said something when along this very lines paraphrasing here. “Why should I listen to sportsmen (gun owners) as most of them are not registered to vote and less even bother to go vote”

IF you go vote in EVERY election (primary / general) you get a extra status, you get known as a SUPER VOTER status, if a politician pulls your info they can see IF you are registered to vote or not. Hence the reason sometimes they feel they can just ignore, a loud mouth non register voters that always complain, as they have NOTHING to fear from you.


Think about that for awhile next time you want to rant and stomp your feet on a little tirade how they can’t do this or that.



To everyone that make the time and effort to vote on NOV 8th

TY