"Asked for policy; got opinion" or "Why I need to start OCing more"

[johnnycarbine]

I would say I'm currently about 60/40 CC/OC. After last night, I'm pretty sure that scale is going to start sliding.

I play pool in the APA. A buddy from work got me into it, and I figured it would be a chance to get out and be social (I'm lazy and cheap, so I don't get out much). I'm going to stop playing at the end of this season, because it helped me to remember that the other reason I don't go out much is that too many people think they have all the answers.

In the APA, each team has a "home" bar, and like any other traveling sport, you have home matches and away matches, where you play at the other team's bar. Well, we were at home this week, and I was outside smoking with one my teammates who is also a bouncer at our home bar. I asked him if he knew the manager's policy on open carry ( I usually CC there for the typical reason; I don't want the drama from the sheeple, and I certainly don't want to have my team captain dragged into a fight that's not really hers). The bouncer's immediate response was "I wouldn't do it, it's not a good idea".

It was pretty clear that this was just his opinion, so I asked, "Is that the policy?".

"Well, I don't know what the policy is, but you shouldn't do it."

"Ok, you don't know the policy, that's what I was looking for. Thanks."

At this point, one of my other teammates, who is a pretty good buddy of the bouncer, asked what we were talking about. As you can imagine, he quickly joined in to create a harmony of "that's not a good idea; you shoudn't do that; I don't think that's legal; what are you, trying to be a gangster?"... facepalm. One of my teammates sort of backed me up, saying "Well, the manager should really have that written/posted somewhere if that's the way he wants to run the place".

Now, I don't want to just up and bail on my team, because most of them are stand-up guys/gals for whom I would go to war. So, here are my plans, and you all tell me if I'm missing anything:

-Leave the team at the end of the session (to give them time to find a replacement)
-Continue to CC on pool nights (unless there's a posted sign barring it)
-Clarify with the manager his policy on OC
-If he's not down with OC, then I'll go play my match, but I'm not going to buy any food or booze from there
-If he is down with OC, suggest that he make his staff aware of that, because I will be OCing at home matches for the rest of the session

As for the away matches, I'm leaning towards just CCing, because if I OC and they tell me to leave, then my team suffers. I may discuss it with my captain, and if she's cool with taking that risk, then f*** it, I'm gonna OC to away matches as well.

[350CI]

i stopped shooting apa:

1. i don't drink any kind of liquor/alcohol
2. i don't smoke
3. i don't like one way in and out places
4. i hate being patted down

and i don't go anywhere my best friend can't go w/ reasonable exceptions...

[rady8um]

Better than 50% chance, in my opinion, OC will not be allowed.
Do you want to stay on the team or not?
What are you going to do if the owner says no OC or CC. Quit immediately?

[Curmudgeon]

Well, FWIW, here are my thoughts on the whole thing.

1) Without having any other information to go by, I think it's cool that you are contemplating OCing more and more. Give it some careful consideration, acquaint yourself with the OC stickies, and use your best judgement.

2) The bouncer worries me a bit. I can't tell you the last time I was in a bar that was such a dive that it had a bouncer. Not a good sign to me, and generally I don't even frequent the kinds of neighborhoods that have bouncers for their bars, let alone the bars themselves. So, before I would ever contemplate the OC vs CC, the conflict would be moot because I wouldn't go in there anyway.

3) However, the whole pool thing being what it is, if I were to go in to the bouncer-covered bar, I'm pretty sure I'd be CC. I'd have to REALLY know the bar, the clientele, the neighborhood, etc before OCing someplace with enough regular trouble to warrant a bouncer on the payroll. The bouncer may just be right. Quite possibly, he knows some things you don't know about the place.

Just my .02.
.

[zeroflat24]

I'm 100% for OC but I don't think a bar would be a good place to do it. I blatantly CC (OWB with a tight shirt) at a bar I frequent a couple times a week, the bouncer smiled and said "whatcha hiding under there?" so I knew he didn't care. I did however have a bunch of drunk douche lords yelling "whoa that can't be legal! You can't have a gun in here!" loud enough for the whole bar to hear.

[DonM55]

JMO....I don't think playing pool in a bar while OCing is a good idea. Bent over the table exposing your gun even more while you're concentrating on the shot.

[mbinpa]

Bars have written policies??????

If any employee asks you to leave, you gotta go. Private property and all...

CC or no C.

[johnnycarbine]

The more I've been OCing, the more comfortable I get. I've got the voice recorder set up on my phone so that one press of the touch screen starts the recording. I've got a backpack full of the flyers and the training manual. And honestly, all I've had are a couple of looks so far, and a cashier at Wawa asked me what I was carrying once. It still amazes that no one bats an eye at a cop carrying a gun, a tazer, a nightstick, handcuffs, pepper spray, and everything else, but as soon as someone who realizes that cops spend more time filling out paperwork than providing physical protection wants to carry his own protection, it's a travesty.

To answer the questions:
I have no real desire to stay on the team. The way most of the players play (sandbagging to keep their skill rating down) has made it no fun, and I'd rather go to the pool hall and play against someone that will wipe the floor with me, because at least I know I'll be getting honest competition. Like I said, I'm planning to keep playing for now, while they find a replacement (it may be too far in to change the roster, too).

If the owner says no OC or CC, then I'll lock it in up in the car while I play. I feel like quitting based on that would be selfish on my part. Either way, however, I plan to post the outcome here and on friendorfoe.

And to respond to things that weren't questions:

Better than 50% chance, in my opinion, OC will not be allowed.

I agree. What irritated me was not so much the anti-OC stance (which I was expecting), but that I specifically asked about the policy, and got a response that had nothing to do with the policy. It's like I asked "do you think it's going to rain?" and he said "about 65 degrees". It may be vaguely related, but it doesn't answer my question.

3. i don't like one way in and out places

That seems like it might be fairly limiting in terms of places you can patronize. I think I can safely say that most, if not all, of the gun stores around me have only one non-emergency entrance/exit location.

4. i hate being patted down

Where the heck did you get patted down to play pool?

The bouncer worries me a bit. I can't tell you the last time I was in a bar that was such a dive that it had a bouncer.

I was using bouncer as more or less a generic term for someone that checks IDs and helps out around the place, but doesn't serve food or drinks. The guy is all of 5'9", about 195 pounds, and not really a confrontational guy (think Patrick Swayze in "Ghost", not "Roadhouse"). It's not that it's a rough place, or even an unfriendly place, but he hangs around on the weekends to help make sure that the college kids don't get out of hand or anything.

[350CI]

i'm not particularly worried when i'm in gun stores because if something goes wrong they'll shoot...

i was more referring to places where your pretty much backed into a corner so to say when all hell breaks loose.

a good portion of bars do pat downs well atleast the ones i've seen.

[ar15jules]

I am more apt to follow Dons line of thinking. You are going to be the "away" team. You show up at an "away" bar to shoot pool for your team. You are OC. You are going to be exposing your firearm unnecessarily while playing pool in an atmosphere where you are apt to run into intoxicated people who REGULARLY frequent the place while you are an "outsider". I am not saying that someone is going to try to disarm and shoot you, but you may be asking for more attention than it is worth when you can CC and remain protected. Just my opinion.
Jules