Ownership of a handgun at 18

[RichieF71]

Hey guys, my name is Rich and I'm 18 years old.

I've very confused about the current laws regarding the ownership of a handgun at 18. From what I've read, I can legally own a handgun at 18 as long as it is gifted or sold to me from a parent or grandparent and no paper work is required. I have also read that a transfer can occur between a private party and myself through a sheriff. However, today I went to a local gun store and the owner told me that this is wrong and I cannot own a handgun until I am 21.

My dad is a gun enthusiast which is how I got into shooting and his explanation for this was that he can gift me the gun but it still in his name and I do not technically own it meaning he would need to be present for me to transport and use it. The gun store owner said something similar that it can be gifted to me but it is not in my name and I do not own it. This doesn't make sense to me. How is the gun "gifted" to me if I don't actually own it? What is the point of having the gun gifted to me if it basically does nothing? Or are they wrong and I actually can own a handgun at 18?

If it is the case that the gun can be gifted to me at 18 by a parent, can someone explain how this actually works? If no paper work is required, where do the parent and child go to complete this process of gifting the gun? Because I know nothing about that.

Can someone help me out here? And if possible, can you direct me to the law that actually shows this because I cannot find the actual laws that address this area. Please do not direct me to the laws listed on this site because I have already seen them and they do not address this in detail either.

Thanks.

[knight0334]

Federal law only prohibits the transfer of a handgun from a FFL to someone under 21yo(US 18, Chap 44, 922(b)). And for the transfer of a handgun amongst private parties to someone under 18yo(US 18, Chapt 44, 922(x)) - there are exceptions though.

PA state law also prohibits possession(ownership/holding/bearing) by persons under 18yo(PA 18, Chap 61, 6110.1(a)).

18 years old is the lawful age of possession in Pennsylvania. However you must obtain that handgun lawfully. To obtain a handgun lawfully as an 18yo you must receive it from an inheritance from a will or intestate succession, or from a parent, grandparent, or spouse(assuming you don't have any children or grandchildren of lawful age). Or you can obtain a handgun from any other private party, but the transfer must be completed at a sheriff - there aren't many, if any, sheriffs that will do it.

For your dad to give you a gun all he has to do is give it to you - no paperwork is necessary, that is it. It will still be in your dad's name, but only a sheriff transfer can change that, which maybe only 1 or 2 around the state might do. Your dad does not need to be present for you to carry, use, or transport the handgun. However you can only transport the handgun in/on a vehicle under exemptions of 18.61.6106(b) - like to/from a range, between home and vacation dwelling, to/from a gunsmith. Or if you have a license from any other state(like Maine who issues to 18yo's). Without a reciprocal license you can only carry concealed in your home or under exemption in 6106(b). You can carry openly on foot without a license(except in Philly and during emergencies) - but you cannot transport the gun in a vehicle without a license from any other state.

The FFL CANNOT do the transfer paperwork because he would have to add it to his bound book. Once in his bound book he can only transfer it to someone that is 21yo.

[gnbrotz]

However, today I went to a local gun store and the owner told me that this is wrong and I cannot own a handgun until I am 21.

The owner is wrong. I can't show you a law that says you can own a handgun at 18. Ask the shop owner to show you the law that prohibits it.

he can gift me the gun but it still in his name and I do not technically own it meaning he would need to be present for me to transport and use it.

A gun need not be "in your name" in order for you to own it. There is no "registration" in PA. The PSP keep records of some sales/transfers, but inter-parent/grandparent/child/spouse do not require a 'paper transfer', so it's absolutely possible for you to legally own a firearm that the PSP do not know about. Just as they would have no idea what guns someone brought with them when they moved here from some other state.

Or are they wrong and I actually can own a handgun at 18?

Pretty much.

And if possible, can you direct me to the law that actually shows this

Generally speaking, laws prohibit certain acts/behaviors. If something is not prohibited, it is - by default - legal.

18 Pa.C.S. §6111 deals with the transfer of firearms (the typically required process). 18 Pa.C.S. §6111(c) contains the language that shows a transfer from your father to you would not require the usual process.

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

[str8shooter]

The gunshop owner is incorrect. You can own a handgun at the age of 18. However, he cannot sell you one.

You are correct, you can receive a handgun as a gift from your father with no paperwork or 'official' transfer as long as you are both residents of PA at the time you received the gun as a gift and you are not prohibited from owning a gun.

The procedure is as follows:

Your dad gives you the gun and says it's yours. Done.

If your dad purchased the gun through a FFL holder that sale will remain on record for the gun, but there is no requirement in PA for the gift to be recorded.

[RichieF71]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the info. I'm glad this finally makes sense now I can explain it to my dad. I'm also pretty happy that I can own a handgun because I like firing handguns more than rifles and I've never fired a shotgun.

Just hypothetically, say I'm on my way to a firing range with a handgun that my dad gifted to me. As far as I understand the gun must be unloaded in the trunk, so that is the case here. I get pulled over for some reason or another and the officer finds the gun and questions me. If I say that the gun was gifted to me from my father, how will the cop respond? The only thing that has me a bit nervous in a case like that is how will the cop know whether or not I'm telling the truth? Can I be arrested?

[MTauss2000]

I apologize, but please allow me to piggyback on this topic. How do the laws treat sale or give from Father-in-Law?

I've recently been sold and given a few weapons (AK bought, Revolver given) and would at least like to register them to me.

[knight0334]

I apologize, but please allow me to piggyback on this topic. How do the laws treat sale or give from Father-in-Law?

I've recently been sold and given a few weapons (AK bought, Revolver given) and would at least like to register them to me.

There is no registration in PA.

The AK doesn't require any record of transfer - it isn't a "firearm" under PA law. For your father-in-law - the the FIL would have to take the handgun to a FFL or sheriff to transfer the handgun to you.

[knight0334]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the info. I'm glad this finally makes sense now I can explain it to my dad. I'm also pretty happy that I can own a handgun because I like firing handguns more than rifles and I've never fired a shotgun.

Just hypothetically, say I'm on my way to a firing range with a handgun that my dad gifted to me. As far as I understand the gun must be unloaded in the trunk, so that is the case here. I get pulled over for some reason or another and the officer finds the gun and questions me. If I say that the gun was gifted to me from my father, how will the cop respond? The only thing that has me a bit nervous in a case like that is how will the cop know whether or not I'm telling the truth? Can I be arrested?

For going to the range the handgun doesn't need to be in the trunk. It just needs to be unloaded.

18.61.6106(b)(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

Now under federal law - if you drive within 1000ft of a school the handgun will also have to be in a locked case.

You can be arrested just for breathing. It doesn't mean the charges will stand.

[str8shooter]

I apologize, but please allow me to piggyback on this topic. How do the laws treat sale or give from Father-in-Law?

I've recently been sold and given a few weapons (AK bought, Revolver given) and would at least like to register them to me.

There is no registration of firearms in PA, and no paper work is required for the purchase of the AK if the transaction happened between two residents of PA over the age of 18.

For the handgun, if your wife is not prohibited from owning a firearm and all parties involved are residents of PA, your FIL can give her his gun as a gift, and she can in turn give it to you. Again there is no registration of ownership in PA and thus no paperwork involved in the gift giving.

If you really feel compelled to be on record as the owner you can go to a licensed firearms dealer and pay for a transfer. This would involve both parties going to the FFL holder to complete the transaction, filling out a form 4473, having a background check run and paying for the transfer. All which are unnecessary for a gift or long gun purhase from a private party, but there are some people who like to have a paper trail when relinquishing ownership of a firearm.

[str8shooter]

Thanks guys I really appreciate the info. I'm glad this finally makes sense now I can explain it to my dad. I'm also pretty happy that I can own a handgun because I like firing handguns more than rifles and I've never fired a shotgun.

Just hypothetically, say I'm on my way to a firing range with a handgun that my dad gifted to me. As far as I understand the gun must be unloaded in the trunk, so that is the case here. I get pulled over for some reason or another and the officer finds the gun and questions me. If I say that the gun was gifted to me from my father, how will the cop respond? The only thing that has me a bit nervous in a case like that is how will the cop know whether or not I'm telling the truth? Can I be arrested?

How any given cop on any give day would respond to your hypothetical is unknown. The cop may believe you and say have a nice day, he may take the gun and run it against the stolen firearm database and return it when it comes up clean, or he may see that your name does not match the name of the person who purchased it and confiscate it until your story can be verified, which no one will be in a hurry to do but you.

Should the last scenario occur, your only choice is to clearly and civilly object to the officer taking possession of your gun. By PA law, there is not supposed to be a database that can prove (or disprove) gun ownership, but some law enforcement agencies regard the state police records for transfer of guns as exactly that until the rightful owner proves otherwise.

Can you be arrested? As Knight0334 eluded to, anyone can be arrested for anything. But unless you've done something above and beyond what would result in a normal 'license and registration please' stop, there's no reason a cop should look in your trunk and put you in the position of explaining where you got a handgun. Unfortunately there's always that bad egg who assumes all teenagers have something to hide and will want to search your car. Again, be civil, be clear and just say no. If they procede with a search anyway, let it be known that it is without your consent, record your objection if possible. You don't have to be a dick to stand up for yourself and object to any procedure you believe is outside the law, but if you don't object then anything found is fair game for building a case against you, unfounded or not.