CC Incident - Stopped Assault @ Septa Station in Somerton, NE Phila

[RHGregory3]

So this actually happened almost three weeks ago now, I wanted to post it sooner but took some time to gather my thoughts.

I'm the maitre' d at a hotel/restaurant in New Hope, PA off york road (PA-263) where I work far less than I'd care to. (I'm for hire, btw should you be an industry owner!)

I leave work around midnight, back to my girl's house in Trevose, end up leaving to get her a 2:00 am craving from the WaWa at Philmont and Bustleton in northeast Phila. (She's pregnant, cravings at the wierdest hours)

I'm in WaWa making the sandwich order when I see a monster of a guy lumbering around the store like he's wasted (Common at this time of night and location essentially being in between two bars) wearing SUNGLASSES (Hi, I'm a red flag!) and cursing out everyone in literally every aisle of the store. He looks at me with this shit eating grin and I kinda just stare at him and scowl, he walks outside cursing out ANOTHER person, I pay for my stuff and walk out the door.

At this point I'm walking parallel to him as I head to my car, and he towards philmont ave/Somerton train station. Hes looking at me now and starts making verbal threats "F$%k you p#@sy", etc.

I stop dead in my tracks and am just like "Funny how drunk assholes are so tough when they're walking away."

He starts screaming further at me, and i just kinda start to chuckle.

"hey you know what man one day your gonna talk the wrong sh#$ to the wrong person in the wrong parking lot. Go sleep it off"

he walks across philmont to the train station parking lot, I got in my car and sat there for a second before deciding it was probably best to just call the guy in, I dial 911 and get a dispatcher on the phone and told her there's a guy that needs to be picked up before he hurts himself or somebody else. She took my name, location and before i could even give her the phone number I hear the sounds of a girl screaming coming from the direction of the train station. I remember looking at the clock, It was 2:46 am on the dashboard.

My car is parked behind a bush where I cannot clearly see the parking lot so I get out of my car and look around the bush. I watch the guy knock out some smaller dude standing at the rear of his car with ONE swing then hop over the dude who is now on the ground toward his female companion.

I interrupt the dispatcher and say "He's assaulting someone in the parking lot, i'm going to try and intervene" I bellowed out a "HEY! GET THE F$%K AWAY FROM THEM!" and ran across philmont ave into the train station parking lot still yelling to divert his attention from the female - when I close into roughly 20 yards he starts walking toward me with that shuffle a ufc fighter usually enacts on his way into the ring.. I drew on him at that point because I believed it was the only aversion to a physical fight, which I may or may not have come out on top of. I'm not saying the law was with me or anything, but I wasn't going to get my ass kicked by some colossal D-bag with drunken retard strength.

So I draw, start to circle him to the right and he stops.. I continued circling right until I was in between him and the assaulted guy and girl, with them about 10 feet behind me he about 15-20 in front of me. I hand my cell phone to the dude who got laid out and has since come to and he continues the phone call with dispatch while I held who I will refer to from here on in as D-bag at gunpoint.

After about two minutes, neither philadephia or lower southampton (we were on the border) has arrived and I still have him at gunpoint.. hes looking at me with this look of drunken hatred like he wants to rip my heart out and I could just feel him doubting I would pull the trigger.

Look, I usually tell everyone I instruct to be careful what YOU SAY. Should you have to actually end someone's life It can and will be used against you.. this is my motto.. and I broke it here. He moved and all I saw in my head was him taking my weapon from me ...

He takes a few steps toward me and my finger twitched. I can't believe the gun didn't fire - I had to make a choice, I felt like I was either going to have to kill him or scare him and maybe both. At that point the only thing that was going to stop him from advancing on me was me firing or convincing him that I REALLY REALLY wanted to. I'm gonna get flamed for that, I can see it already. So I pretty much go off.. censored.. "GO AHEAD! TAKE YOUR LAST FEW STEPS, ID LOVE NOTHING MORE THAN TO END YOUR #### YOU ####### LOWLIFE! GIVE ME A ####### REASON PLEASE!"

I took two steps towards him and he starts walking backwards.. i stop with him still at gunpoint and he walks away.. I didnt follow him because my involvement was simply to try and protect the duo.

he gets about 150 yards away and out of sight and I re-holster my gun, get my liscence and permit out - get my phone back and explain what just happened to dispatch (erratically, I might add) after another two minutes (felt like forever) he comes back into view re-appoaching us shirtless. All i could think of was "what does he have now that he didnt have then" I didn't redraw my weapon but had my hand on it and just stared him in the eye and he didnt approach us directly for the rest of the time until the police get there

a philadephia cruiser pulls in and one officer gets out, the dispatcher is like "you have to tell them you are armed, now" so I comply... the cop wants nothing to do with me! she's concerned with the d-bag and the guy that got assaulted, like this was a barfight because it happened so close to the bar... I'm expecting philly to come in and put me on the ground, and nothing... I told her "Hi, I called this in, I am armed and do have a ltcf, I ran over here to intervene and left my car door open in wawa parking lot, can I go close it really quick? I'm not leaving"

"Sure."

I walk over to wawa, there are 4 lower southampton cars here now, one officer spots me approaching and puts his hand on his sidearm - "uh, HI! I called this in! I have a ltcf and my sidearm is holstered at my four O' clock position.. If you could not shoot me that'd be fantastic."

He starts laughing and takes his hand off his gun, walks over asks my name I hand him my info (The phila cop never even asked for it) where he asks "did you have to draw your gun?" I say "Yes" and he replies "I need to take it while we run your permit then, you may have it back after." I comply and he removed it from my holster (IWB) while I lifted my shirt.

They run me, I come back fine - The guy who was assaulted comes over takes my number and thanks me "Dude, I don't know what I would have done if you hadn't come along.. I've never been hit so hard in my life" .. I'm told im free to go, and they LET THE FREAKING D-BAG GO.

I asked why and was simply told "Oh, we get 2-3 calls a week from him. He's mentally Ill, and comes over to Sweenys, gets liquored up then comes back and starts fights with people at wawa until he gets tired of it and goes home"

So I say "Isn't that a fairly consistent problem? What happens tomorrow when he's back again?"

she (phila PD) replies "Well, he's mentally Ill. That limits what you can do or charge him with" (I've never heard of this but am not even savvy, much less an expert)

I say "You'd think there'd be a 302 or something since he's mentally Ill?

One Lower Southampton guy stays behind, bums a cig off me then starts talking about 1911s and how he got into the department. End story. I'm baffled they let this prick go.

Sorry if this story is one giant run-on sentence, I'm no english major.

[West Chester]

Perfect time to have some OC spray as well.

[vicious]

Don't take anything i say as criticism because all things considered i think you did an excellent job.

Use this as an opportunity to consider where you may have deficiencies in your training.

-Could you benefit from training that includes stress innoculation?

-Could you benefit from training in verbal judo and how to control a scene with your verbal presence?

-Could you benefit from training in unarmed combat? Have you ever taken a hard hit that rocked your world? Do you think that you could effectively utilize a weapon after getting your bell rung?

Think about all of these things. Think about additional areas where you feel you could benefit from additional training. Consider all the what-ifs that could have taken this scenario that ended well in the opposite direction. Training in all of these things is available if you seek it.

Once again, great work, but a good performance should never lead to complacency. It should always lead to a conversation with yourself about where your comfort zone ends and how to expand it. You seem like a smart guy and i'm sure you'll make the best decisions about where you're going next.

[JIDinPhilly]

Wow dude, that's one hell of a story. I guess as long as your are mentally ill, you can get away with just about anything. Your story also goes to show that the police are useless unless they can generate some revenue with speeding tickets and the like. A mentally deranged and drunken neanderthal assaulting men and women isn't too high on the list of police duties or responsibilities. Rep inbound.

[streaker69]

If you would have been forced to shoot him, the headlines would have read "Mentally Retarded man gunned down at Wawa's".

Or whatever the PC term is for retarded these days. I think you did the right thing.

[sprrdhawk44]

Perhaps ignoring him would have been a better option, as opposed to "drunk assholes are tough while walking away." That's what we call escalation. Other than that you did alright.

He starts laughing and takes his hand off his gun, walks over asks my name I hand him my info (The phila cop never even asked for it) where he asks "did you have to draw your gun?" I say "Yes" and he replies "I need to take it while we run your permit then, you may have it back after." I comply and he removed it from my holster (IWB) while I lifted my shirt.

I'm glad deputy dipshit was worried about apprehending the REAL perpetrator.

[RuthlessZ]

a philadephia cruiser pulls in and one officer gets out, the dispatcher is like "you have to tell them you are armed, now" so I comply... the cop wants nothing to do with me! she's concerned with the d-bag and the guy that got assaulted, like this was a barfight because it happened so close to the bar... I'm expecting philly to come in and put me on the ground, and nothing... I told her "Hi, I called this in, I am armed and do have a ltcf, I ran over here to intervene and left my car door open in wawa parking lot, can I go close it really quick? I'm not leaving"

"Sure."

Sounds like it went fairly well except the whole releasing him thing I was just wondering. Is the bold accurate or not?

[gfanikf]

Wow dude, that's one hell of a story. I guess as long as your are mentally ill, you can get away with just about anything. .

Part of the problem is it's extremely hard for the state to involuntarily commit a person these days. Hell it's hard for even a family member to do it for a person over 18. They may also have had experience of trying to try him before and issues of his capacity and/or competency with getting a guilty verdict. Though guilty, but mentally ill, as we remember from the DuPont killings, is an option. If anyone wants I could ask my father, ge often did PA criminal law, though he mostly does domestic relations an estates these days, and he might have an idea if the claim was legit or not.

Your story also goes to show that the police are useless unless they can generate some revenue with speeding tickets and the like. A mentally deranged and drunken neanderthal assaulting men and women isn't too high on the list of police duties or responsibilities. Rep inbound

I think thats a tad unfair...and this is coming from a guy who got a really bullshit speeding ticket recently. In this instant, yes, but that's not always the case.

Sounds like it went fairly well except the whole releasing him thing I was just wondering. Is the bold accurate or not?

Not sure, but I think it's just falls under the good advice to prevent a potential issue caused by confusion.

[RHGregory3]

Don't take anything i say as criticism because all things considered i think you did an excellent job.

Use this as an opportunity to consider where you may have deficiencies in your training.

-Could you benefit from training that includes stress innoculation?

-Could you benefit from training in verbal judo and how to control a scene with your verbal presence?

-Could you benefit from training in unarmed combat? Have you ever taken a hard hit that rocked your world? Do you think that you could effectively utilize a weapon after getting your bell rung?

Think about all of these things. Think about additional areas where you feel you could benefit from additional training. Consider all the what-ifs that could have taken this scenario that ended well in the opposite direction. Training in all of these things is available if you seek it.

Once again, great work, but a good performance should never lead to complacency. It should always lead to a conversation with yourself about where your comfort zone ends and how to expand it. You seem like a smart guy and i'm sure you'll make the best decisions about where you're going next.

I agree with this and if anything this experience has stirred many of these questions already. The whole thing has given me great perspective on where I could greatly use some additional training. Thanks Vicious - That is phenomenal advice.

[mollymayhem82]

1. You shouldn't have said a fucking word to him...at all. You should have just smiled, gotten in your car, and left.

2. If you're going to shoot...shoot, don't talk.

You were way too close to him; you were almost contact distance. Someone with better coordination could have closed the gap, and assaulted you. You may have had your gun taken, and used against you.

3. Philly cops are fucking morons.