Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chesco, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    719
    Rep Power
    8996

    Default Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP



    really not happy with the carry ammo i had chosen.. time to find something else.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ✠ Ēǻζţ ŞŧЯǿŪđβũЯģ, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
    Posts
    5,572
    Rep Power
    472701

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Just for shits and giggles try 165 grain Corbon +p JHPs. Let me know what you think.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Apolacon Township, Pennsylvania
    (Susquehanna County)
    Age
    69
    Posts
    4,091
    Rep Power
    921484

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    There's tests and there's tests. Would the results have been different if the jugs were tied together so there was no loss of energy from the jugs dancing against each other? Would it have been different if you hit at the center of mass of the target jug instead of off center?

    With thanks to Legion Prime here's a link to a ballistics gelatin test of multiple projectiles and multiple factory loads in multiple calibers:
    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

    You can find this originally posted in the "Do you Carry Reloads In Your CCW" thread in the Pistols section.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lubbock, Texas
    Age
    32
    Posts
    2,865
    Rep Power
    347716

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Chaos View Post
    really not happy with the carry ammo i had chosen.. time to find something else.
    I don't quite understand you're so disappointed. It doesn't seem like all that scientific of a test, and in my opinion isn't really in conditions that you'd typically experience in the real world or a self defense scenario.

    Honestly, shooting water jugs doesn't tell you much at all. Water behaves quite differently from flesh. Water behaves quite differently from ballistics gel, which is made under certain conditions and temperatures to behave similarly to flesh. I also don't see the point of shooting through 4 layers of denim. Why did you decide to shoot through so many layers of denim? In a self defense scenario where you're aiming CM, 4 layers of denim just doesn't seem close to practical. I mean even if he was wearing a denim jacket that had a denim liner, that would be 2 layers of denim. Then let's say that he's wearing a denim shirt, so that's 3 layers. I've just never seen anybody wear even 3 layers of denim center mass. Even if you're shooting at the guy, going through his jacket, through and in his pants, that's still not 4 layers of denim.

    Denim is notorious for clogging hollowpoints, so I understand why you chose to put it on the front of a jug. It's just interesting to me that all the sudden it's 4 layers. It greatly increases the chances of the hollowpoint clogging, and just doesn't seem lik all that realistic of a scenario. Even with the hollowpoint going through that much denim and being partially clogged, it still halfway opened. It seemed to get enough penetration, which I think is one of the most important things. It looks like under some pretty unfair conditions, they performed pretty fair to me. I carry the EXACT same ammunition, and I'm not discouraged by those results. In my mind, worst case scenario if they clog, is they then act like fmj's and penetrate deep enough to be fatal, placement is everything. It's not like "energy dump" is an effective means of incapacitation and killing in pistol cartridges.

    I really just don't understand what you think this "test" really tells you. I don't understand exactly why you're so discouraged by the "results". I guess interpretation of the results is everything.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chesco, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    719
    Rep Power
    8996

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Quote Originally Posted by CHEMICAL View Post
    Just for shits and giggles try 165 grain Corbon +p JHPs. Let me know what you think.
    i've got a list of stuff to try out haha ill add that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    County Line, Pennsylvania
    (Northumberland County)
    Posts
    379
    Rep Power
    1229

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Take a leg from an old pair of jeans (2 layers) hang it in front of a raw beef brisket, behind that hang some raw beef ribs then behind it all put your water filled milk jug. See if you think it will work then, you opinion may change. Both of those cuts of meat are not expensive, zip tie them together for better consistency.
    "You never lived till you almost died, for those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chesco, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    719
    Rep Power
    8996

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Quote Originally Posted by Brick View Post
    There's tests and there's tests. Would the results have been different if the jugs were tied together so there was no loss of energy from the jugs dancing against each other? Would it have been different if you hit at the center of mass of the target jug instead of off center?

    With thanks to Legion Prime here's a link to a ballistics gelatin test of multiple projectiles and multiple factory loads in multiple calibers:
    http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

    You can find this originally posted in the "Do you Carry Reloads In Your CCW" thread in the Pistols section.
    "center mass" on the jugs is actually pretty close to where i hit them... if you hit them higher, you run into the handle area.

    thanks for the link.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chesco, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    719
    Rep Power
    8996

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomcat088 View Post
    I don't quite understand you're so disappointed. It doesn't seem like all that scientific of a test, and in my opinion isn't really in conditions that you'd typically experience in the real world or a self defense scenario.

    Honestly, shooting water jugs doesn't tell you much at all. Water behaves quite differently from flesh. Water behaves quite differently from ballistics gel, which is made under certain conditions and temperatures to behave similarly to flesh. I also don't see the point of shooting through 4 layers of denim. Why did you decide to shoot through so many layers of denim? In a self defense scenario where you're aiming CM, 4 layers of denim just doesn't seem close to practical. I mean even if he was wearing a denim jacket that had a denim liner, that would be 2 layers of denim. Then let's say that he's wearing a denim shirt, so that's 3 layers. I've just never seen anybody wear even 3 layers of denim center mass. Even if you're shooting at the guy, going through his jacket, through and in his pants, that's still not 4 layers of denim.

    Denim is notorious for clogging hollowpoints, so I understand why you chose to put it on the front of a jug. It's just interesting to me that all the sudden it's 4 layers. It greatly increases the chances of the hollowpoint clogging, and just doesn't seem lik all that realistic of a scenario. Even with the hollowpoint going through that much denim and being partially clogged, it still halfway opened. It seemed to get enough penetration, which I think is one of the most important things. It looks like under some pretty unfair conditions, they performed pretty fair to me. I carry the EXACT same ammunition, and I'm not discouraged by those results. In my mind, worst case scenario if they clog, is they then act like fmj's and penetrate deep enough to be fatal, placement is everything. It's not like "energy dump" is an effective means of incapacitation and killing in pistol cartridges.

    I really just don't understand what you think this "test" really tells you. I don't understand exactly why you're so discouraged by the "results". I guess interpretation of the results is everything.

    my understanding is that 4 layers of denim is representative of thick/heavy clothing, which makes plenty of sense. and as far as im concerned, i hit center mass, low in the water jugs. any higher and you run into the handle area.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Chesco, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    719
    Rep Power
    8996

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Quote Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
    Take a leg from an old pair of jeans (2 layers) hang it in front of a raw beef brisket, behind that hang some raw beef ribs then behind it all put your water filled milk jug. See if you think it will work then, you opinion may change. Both of those cuts of meat are not expensive, zip tie them together for better consistency.
    lol how about you buy the meat and do that test? i gotta go buy new ammo.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    County Line, Pennsylvania
    (Northumberland County)
    Posts
    379
    Rep Power
    1229

    Default Re: Ammo Test: Winchester Ranger-T 230gr +P 45 ACP

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Chaos View Post
    lol how about you buy the meat and do that test? i gotta go buy new ammo.
    Well I get your point, but it would be more real world than a water filled milk jug. And no I was never attacked by a rampaging cow. If this is your carry ammo would you not want it to be as thoroughly tested as possible by you. I accept that a 230gr 45ACP (non FMJ) drilled COM will end the fight, more importantly if it is quickly followed up by more of the same.
    "You never lived till you almost died, for those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Want To Buy] winchester ranger t 40 ammo
    By 97grnrs in forum Classifieds Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 17th, 2010, 09:41 PM
  2. [CLOSED] Winchester Ranger 9mm ammo
    By MagicMan in forum Classifieds Archive
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: March 2nd, 2010, 11:38 AM
  3. Winchester ranger ammo
    By God's Country in forum General
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: December 3rd, 2009, 06:40 PM
  4. Winchester Ranger .45acp 230gr RA45T
    By he11zna in forum General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: July 5th, 2009, 10:15 PM
  5. Winchester Ranger T 230gr + P 45ACP For $27
    By Adenn1 in forum General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: November 25th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Local gun shops | Local shooting ranges | Philadelphia Shooting Ranges | Philadelphia Gun Shops | Pittsburgh Shooting Ranges | Pittsburgh Gun Shops