ATI GSG 1911 .22lr

[Maryland_Shooter]

I wound up getting a .22lr conversion for my Ar-15 instead of the GSG 1911. I think one day I will get a full blown 1911 in .45acp.

http://forum.pafoa.org/rifles-42/148...ml#post1747202

You let me down, it is ALWAYS get both

[em2b96p]

I bought a GSG1911 about a year ago from www.jmgfirearms.com. Its the standard wood version.

I had problems with FTE and FTF at first. The problem was solved by applying lots of lube to the frame and slide rails. I have been spoiled by my Glocks since they use very minimal lube.

There are lots of recalls and factory updated parts on this pistol. These parts are free from the GSG factory in NY, but they are extremely busy and hard to get a hold of.

IIRC recall/Update parts:

*Barrel Bushing- Original made of soft metal and upgrade made of steel.
*Mag follower- updated to allow better slide lock on empty.
*Slide release/take down lever- Updated to prevent horizontal play ( causing FTF).
*Recoil buffer- Original made of softer rubber and upgrade made of harder rubber.


What I DONT like about the GSG1911:

*Finish is very thin. I use Birchwood Casey perma blue to touch up.

*Magazine bottoms made of plastic prone to breaking when "tactical floor drop reloading".

*Recoil spring has a taper on the one end. You must install the recoil spring with the smaller taper end towards the recoil buffer. In other words, the bigger end goes towards the muzzle.

*Ambidextrous safety is very weak. Its made of a soft metal and prone to breaking. The two halves are connected via Tongue and Groove. The Tongue breaks off easily. There is no recall or updated parts from the factory for this. I suggest you DO NOT USE the safety. Just practice good trigger discipline and keep pointed in safe direction. Although if you MUST USE the safety activate it with the LEFT side. This side has the GROOVE (opposite has the tongue) and will put less stress on the tongue.

*The slide release/take down lever is made of steel and I believe the slide is made of aluminum ( or some some sort of softer than the slide release metal). The notch on my slide where the slide release catches on an empty mag is starting to erode. Essentially the slide release is eating at the slide.

*The pistol comes with three front sight posts. Mine came with the middle height post installed from the factory. It is accurate at 0-15 yards. At 25 yards its about a foot high. This is fine with me because I only shoot it between 0-15 yards.

* Magazine safety is a pain. I defeated mine by replacing the MSH with a Colt flat MSH.

*Dissassembly requires removal of a hex screw. Hex screw is crap metal, it will eventually strip out.


What I DO like about this pistol:

* 22LR DUH!

* Size and weight makes it feel like a REAL PISTOL unlike the Sig Mosquito or Walther P22.

*Magazines are made of nice steel and heavy weight. Look and feel robust.

*Comes with beaver tail grip safety, silver tactical hammer, groove and drilled trigger.

*Compatible with MOST 1911 .45ACP parts.

*Trigger is adjustable. But mine is CRISP from the factory. I dont think there is a soul out there that complains about the trigger (unless defective).

*Easy to clean. I dont even dissassemble it. I use a q-tip soaked in CLP or Hoppes 9 and swab the barrel from both ends.

*Price is reasonable. I got mine for $349.99.

Points of Interest:

*Ive heard the recoil rod is prone to breaking. Although there is an aftermarket one available. http://cwaccessories.com/Products.html
*Sig Sauer makes a 1911 in 22LR. It is the same exact pistol as the GSG1911. Why pay more?


Hope this helps ya fellas

[Maryland_Shooter]

I love this gun.

It's my first 1911, and the first I've ever fired. I love everything about this gun. Anyone who wants to give it a try is more than welcome to do so with me at my gun club. I can't fund anything to not like about this gun. Despite it being .22lr caliber I wouldn't count it out as a reasonable carry gun. I picked up a DeSantes speed scabbard to go with it when I bought it from Classic. I got a really good deal on the gun. Thanks CP.

Glad you got it and like it; however, it is not a 1911. Making a GSG 1911 a carry gun . . . I am at a loss for words there. I got nothing.

[ByblosHex]

You let me down, it is ALWAYS get both

I do have both now. I have the .22lr drop-in conversion for my AR-15 and the GSG 1911 .22lr.

Glad you got it and like it; however, it is not a 1911. Making a GSG 1911 a carry gun . . . I am at a loss for words there. I got nothing.

Why not carry it?

I bought a GSG1911 about a year ago from www.jmgfirearms.com. Its the standard wood version.

I had problems with FTE and FTF at first. The problem was solved by applying lots of lube to the frame and slide rails. I have been spoiled by my Glocks since they use very minimal lube.

There are lots of recalls and factory updated parts on this pistol. These parts are free from the GSG factory in NY, but they are extremely busy and hard to get a hold of.

IIRC recall/Update parts:

*Barrel Bushing- Original made of soft metal and upgrade made of steel.
*Mag follower- updated to allow better slide lock on empty.
*Slide release/take down lever- Updated to prevent horizontal play ( causing FTF).
*Recoil buffer- Original made of softer rubber and upgrade made of harder rubber.


What I DONT like about the GSG1911:

*Finish is very thin. I use Birchwood Casey perma blue to touch up.

*Magazine bottoms made of plastic prone to breaking when "tactical floor drop reloading".

*Recoil spring has a taper on the one end. You must install the recoil spring with the smaller taper end towards the recoil buffer. In other words, the bigger end goes towards the muzzle.

*Ambidextrous safety is very weak. Its made of a soft metal and prone to breaking. The two halves are connected via Tongue and Groove. The Tongue breaks off easily. There is no recall or updated parts from the factory for this. I suggest you DO NOT USE the safety. Just practice good trigger discipline and keep pointed in safe direction. Although if you MUST USE the safety activate it with the LEFT side. This side has the GROOVE (opposite has the tongue) and will put less stress on the tongue.

*The slide release/take down lever is made of steel and I believe the slide is made of aluminum ( or some some sort of softer than the slide release metal). The notch on my slide where the slide release catches on an empty mag is starting to erode. Essentially the slide release is eating at the slide.

*The pistol comes with three front sight posts. Mine came with the middle height post installed from the factory. It is accurate at 0-15 yards. At 25 yards its about a foot high. This is fine with me because I only shoot it between 0-15 yards.

* Magazine safety is a pain. I defeated mine by replacing the MSH with a Colt flat MSH.

*Dissassembly requires removal of a hex screw. Hex screw is crap metal, it will eventually strip out.


What I DO like about this pistol:

* 22LR DUH!

* Size and weight makes it feel like a REAL PISTOL unlike the Sig Mosquito or Walther P22.

*Magazines are made of nice steel and heavy weight. Look and feel robust.

*Comes with beaver tail grip safety, silver tactical hammer, groove and drilled trigger.

*Compatible with MOST 1911 .45ACP parts.

*Trigger is adjustable. But mine is CRISP from the factory. I dont think there is a soul out there that complains about the trigger (unless defective).

*Easy to clean. I dont even dissassemble it. I use a q-tip soaked in CLP or Hoppes 9 and swab the barrel from both ends.

*Price is reasonable. I got mine for $349.99.

Points of Interest:

*Ive heard the recoil rod is prone to breaking. Although there is an aftermarket one available. http://cwaccessories.com/Products.html
*Sig Sauer makes a 1911 in 22LR. It is the same exact pistol as the GSG1911. Why pay more?


Hope this helps ya fellas

Thanks for the information.

[Maryland_Shooter]

Love shooting the GSG 1911. Some parts are interchangable in fit but the metal is not steel. A good wack and it will break, I found this on another site:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay here is the official list straight from the horses mouth (thanks Christopher from ATI):

Barrel Bushing
Front & Rear Site
Hammer
Trigger
Grip Safety
the Whole Main Spring Housing
Thumb Safety
Sear
Disconnector
Sear Spring
Grip Panels (but not the screws because they're in metric)
Mag Release
Sear Pin
Hammer Pin
Plunger Tube
Plunger Spring

These were all confirmed by ATI themselves, one note on the grip panel screws, it has been reported that you can change the bushings w/ no problem then use regular 1911 grip panel screws.

MSH? I seriously do not see how that is possible. The one in the pistol doesn't have the pin that runs from back (the frame) to front to hold the guts of the MS in the housing.

The GSG has a short, stubby pin that enters from the side and IIRC, it is at a different depth than a true 1911 MSH. You can easily see this if you compare the GSG spring with any true 1911 main spring. The GSG spring is noticeably shorter, so how a stock MSH works is something I'd like to see.

And the internals of the MSH are smaller in diameter than a true 1911.

MSH = different
Mainspring = different; smaller internal diameter, shorter
Mainspring cap = different; smaller outer diameter
Mainspring Housing Pin retainer = smaller outside diameter
Mainspring cap pin = different location, different size

Who changed theirs and has pics?

Did you use the original GSG guts in a standard MSH?
How did you pin the Mainspring cap?

[Maryland_Shooter]

I do have both now. I have the .22lr drop-in conversion for my AR-15 and the GSG 1911 .22lr.

Why not carry it?

Thanks for the information.

A .22? if ya have to ask, no sense even discussing it;

[em2b96p]

MSH? I seriously do not see how that is possible. The one in the pistol doesn't have the pin that runs from back (the frame) to front to hold the guts of the MS in the housing.

The GSG has a short, stubby pin that enters from the side and IIRC, it is at a different depth than a true 1911 MSH. You can easily see this if you compare the GSG spring with any true 1911 main spring. The GSG spring is noticeably shorter, so how a stock MSH works is something I'd like to see.

And the internals of the MSH are smaller in diameter than a true 1911.

MSH = different
Mainspring = different; smaller internal diameter, shorter
Mainspring cap = different; smaller outer diameter
Mainspring Housing Pin retainer = smaller outside diameter
Mainspring cap pin = different location, different size

Who changed theirs and has pics?

Did you use the original GSG guts in a standard MSH?
How did you pin the Mainspring cap?

**Safety Note: If you replace your MSH you will defeat the mag safety (prevents firing when mag removed).**

I bought a Colt flat MSH from ebay and it worked flawlessly. It did require a bit of filing as with all 1911 parts.

I put the stock internals in the MSH and used the roll pin to keep the cap and spring in the MSH. Roll pin goes IN from backstrap, over the mainspring cap, and into the front of the MSH.

I also used the stock GSG MSH pin.

Did that answer your question?


EDIT TO ADD: I just looked at my original GSG curved MSH and the MS Cap and MS are held in by a short stubby pin. Push that out of the way to gain access to the MS Cap and MS. *Carefull not to poke an eye out*

Generally "Aftermarket" MSH hold the MS Cap and MS down with a roll pin from the rear of the MSH as I described above.
This video should help
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9py1U-X2VZU

[ByblosHex]

A .22? if ya have to ask, no sense even discussing it;

As someone who carries a 9mm, a .357magnum and now also a .22lr I see no sense in not carrying it. 22lr is the most commonly used caliber in self defense. I read of it's effectiveness and success every month in the NRA magazine as well in other stories around the web. It does not offer the best ballistic performance, but I haven't read of any cases where it was underpowered enough to be ineffective where-as there are several cases where other calibers, such as 9mm and .45acp being ineffective against crack-heads and the like. I don't suppose the .22lr would be any more effective as a caliber in that situation, but I do consider shot-placement to be the defining factor. In a siege or prolonged gunfight I'd prefer one of my many other firearms. Since general self-defense situations are not prolonged gun fights or sieges, I think it would do just fine. For general, daily personal protection I can't deny 30rds (3 magazines of 10) being sufficient. If I need more than that, I probably made some bad decisions that day.

Unless you have something particularly evident to add? I'd be very interested to hear it.

Here is one article I found on the subject that was interesting.
From what I've read, the most effective aspect of a firearm is it's physiological effect. It stops attackers physiologically more often than not, and physically so less often than not. The gun being presented or pointed is most often effective enough, being shot is again more physiological than physical, in that even a heart shot with .45ACP wouldn't stop a totally dedicated attacker, where as the general run of the mill criminal would surrender after being shot in the foot with a .22lr.
I for one, am convinced that the firearm's power lies mostly in it's physiological effects on the adversary. Additionally, high quality 22.lr is more than capable of absolute lethality. To be honest, I think I may have a greater capacity to hit my target with this firearm than my Glock 19.

look at one shooting - Hinckley shooting Reagan in 1981. Hink gets off 6 shots of 22lr. One hits Macarthy in the belly (Secret service guy, stepped in front of Reagan); another hits DC cop Delahanty in neck. One hits Brady in forehead; 2 miss; last one hits Reagan under arm, goes thru lung.

Results: Macarthy drops to ground (probably can't believe he just stepped in front of a bullet);
Delahanty goes down;
Brady goes down - central nervous system hit;
Reagan thinks his SS guy broke his ribs pushing him into the car.

One true 'stop' from CNS hit;
2 stops from ? (pain, psychological?)
1 no stop (although Reagan was probably closer to death than the other 3 guys)

**Safety Note: If you replace your MSH you will defeat the mag safety (prevents firing when mag removed).**

I bought a Colt flat MSH from ebay and it worked flawlessly. It did require a bit of filing as with all 1911 parts.

I put the stock internals in the MSH and used the roll pin to keep the cap and spring in the MSH. Roll pin goes IN from backstrap, over the mainspring cap, and into the front of the MSH.

I also used the stock GSG MSH pin.

Did that answer your question?


EDIT TO ADD: I just looked at my original GSG curved MSH and the MS Cap and MS are held in by a short stubby pin. Push that out of the way to gain access to the MS Cap and MS. *Carefull not to poke an eye out*

Generally "Aftermarket" MSH hold the MS Cap and MS down with a roll pin from the rear of the MSH as I described above.
This video should help

So, most parts do work, just some require a little tweaking?

[Maryland_Shooter]

As someone who carries a 9mm, a .357magnum and now also a .22lr I see no sense in not carrying it. 22lr is the most commonly used caliber in self defense. I read of it's effectiveness and success every month in the NRA magazine as well in other stories around the web. It does not offer the best ballistic performance, but I haven't read of any cases where it was underpowered enough to be ineffective where-as there are several cases where other calibers, such as 9mm and .45acp being ineffective against crack-heads and the like. I don't suppose the .22lr would be any more effective as a caliber in that situation, but I do consider shot-placement to be the defining factor. In a siege or prolonged gunfight I'd prefer one of my many other firearms. Since general self-defense situations are not prolonged gun fights or sieges, I think it would do just fine. For general, daily personal protection I can't deny 30rds (3 magazines of 10) being sufficient. If I need more than that, I probably made some bad decisions that day.

Unless you have something particularly evident to add? I'd be very interested to hear it.

Here is one article I found on the subject that was interesting.
From what I've read, the most effective aspect of a firearm is it's physiological effect. It stops attackers physiologically more often than not, and physically so less often than not. The gun being presented or pointed is most often effective enough, being shot is again more physiological than physical, in that even a heart shot with .45ACP wouldn't stop a totally dedicated attacker, where as the general run of the mill criminal would surrender after being shot in the foot with a .22lr.
I for one, am convinced that the firearm's power lies mostly in it's physiological effects on the adversary. Additionally, high quality 22.lr is more than capable of absolute lethality. To be honest, I think I may have a greater capacity to hit my target with this firearm than my Glock 19.

look at one shooting - Hinckley shooting Reagan in 1981. Hink gets off 6 shots of 22lr. One hits Macarthy in the belly (Secret service guy, stepped in front of Reagan); another hits DC cop Delahanty in neck. One hits Brady in forehead; 2 miss; last one hits Reagan under arm, goes thru lung.

Results: Macarthy drops to ground (probably can't believe he just stepped in front of a bullet);
Delahanty goes down;
Brady goes down - central nervous system hit;
Reagan thinks his SS guy broke his ribs pushing him into the car.

One true 'stop' from CNS hit;
2 stops from ? (pain, psychological?)
1 no stop (although Reagan was probably closer to death than the other 3 guys)


So, most parts do work, just some require a little tweaking?

22lr is the most commonly used caliber in self defense. I read of it's effectiveness and success every month in the NRA magazine as well in other stories around the web.

I read that shit tastes like filet mignon, but that doesn't mean I believe it.

Friend, if you are comfortable carrying a .22 as a self-defense weapon, I am comfortable with you carrying it. Have at it all day and twice on Sunday.

Is it better than nothing - sure. Is it something I'd pick? Oh Not just NO, but HELL NO.

[ByblosHex]

22lr is the most commonly used caliber in self defense. I read of it's effectiveness and success every month in the NRA magazine as well in other stories around the web.

I read that shit tastes like filet mignon, but that doesn't mean I believe it.

Friend, if you are comfortable carrying a .22 as a self-defense weapon, I am comfortable with you carrying it. Have at it all day and twice on Sunday.

Is it better than nothing - sure. Is it something I'd pick? Oh Not just NO, but HELL NO.

Why wouldn't you believe it? Have you used 22lr in defense and failed? The taste of shit is easily verifiable, how do you verify your belief that .22lr is insufficient?

Is it the ultimate caliber? No. There is no ultimate caliber and there is no perfect gun. each caliber and each gun have their drawbacks and benefits.

Unless you have some actual reasoning to share, just quit wasting my time.