school bus stop cc/oc ok or not

[HiredGoon]

They really meant to say miles

[Kurt_D]

I called pa state police and they said that it is not considered a school zone unless its actually within the 1000 yards or feet of a school no legal action can be taken against you for oc or cc at a school bus stop unless it is within that range of a school.

If you have a PA LTCF, and do NOT get onto the school bus and it is NOT ON school property, I would suspect the 1000 ft/yd/mile/league/AU/parsec number would not apply anyway. With an LTCF, there should be no distance restriction so long as you are off school property.

If you are OC, w/o an LTCF, that's a different story.

I'm not so sure, though, that I'd show up anywhere near a school bus stop O/C, LTCF notwithstanding. Not unless you want to test the statute. Just a thought.

(Somewhat of a necro thread that has been worked over pretty well...)

[Statkowski]

I think one thing that gets everyone all wrapped around the axle over schools and guns is the conflict between the title of Section 912 and what Section 912 actually says.

18 Pa. C.S. § 912: Possession of weapon on school property

(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

There is a difference between "school property" and "on the grounds of." A public roadway separates the school building from the school's baseball/football fields. Clearly, the sports fields are school property, but they are not "on the grounds of" the school - they are separate from the school since a public roadway divides the two entities.

School building and lands immediately surrounding such - Section 912 applies. Other lands - Section 912's application appears questionable.

[Greywolf]

I called pa state police and they said that it is not considered a school zone unless its actually within the 1000 yards or feet of a school no legal action can be taken against you for oc or cc at a school bus stop unless it is within that range of a school.

If this question is going to continue to be debated, can we PLEASE forget about school zones and school property? The question was about a gun in a car at a school bus stop. The statute (which has been quoted at least three times already, all neatly highlighted, do NOT say that school buses or school bus stops are in any way school "zones" or school property. The statute says

(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon ... or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

Nothing about this portion of the statute makes any assertion that a vehicle being used to transport a child to school is school property. The law just doesn't want weapons in the same vehicles as kids going to or from school. Forget all discussion about "school property" -- it doesn't apply to the question.

There was a previous discussion on this same provision of the statute in which someone cited the definition of "conveyance." Basically a conveyance is anything that carries ("conveys") something. I believe the example used in that discussion was that if you choose to "convey" your child to school on your riding mower, the mower is a conveyance within the context of the statute.

And as for trying to argue that your vehicle doesn't become a conveyance to a school unless/until you enter onto school property ... my only advice is, "Don't try it." Suppose you are driving your child to school, you're stopped at a traffic light, and a co-worker pulls up beside you. Co-worker rolls down his window and asks where you're going. Are you honestly NOT going to respond, "I'm driving my kid to school"? Probably not unless you're the type of person who would say "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

Get it?

[schneppee]

You're going to have to support this statement with some sort of statute saying so. I'm not going to believe that I may be committing a crime by sitting in my car, across the street from a school, at least if I have a PA license to carry.

I am new to the PAFOA site. I like to see what is going on in near states.

I have a CCW (called CPL) here in Michigan. I have been told numerous times that a gun in my possession within 1000 feet of a school, according to the Fed's, automatically gets me 10 years no questions asked.

I would be careful. Having a permit does not make you immune.

[Steve in PA]

I am new to the PAFOA site. I like to see what is going on in near states.

I have a CCW (called CPL) here in Michigan. I have been told numerous times that a gun in my possession within 1000 feet of a school, according to the Fed's, automatically gets me 10 years no questions asked.

I would be careful. Having a permit does not make you immune.

Not according to the Federal Gun Free School Zone Law.

If you have a permit, CCW or whatever it is called in your state, that subjects you to a background check, you are NOT in violation of the Federal Law.

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm t h at has moved in or that otherwise
affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that
the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to
believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) shall does not apply to the
possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to
do so by the State in which the school zone is located
or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of
the State or political subdivision requires that, before
an individual obtain s such a license, the law
enforcement authorities of the State or political
subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
under law to receive the license;

[streaker69]

I am new to the PAFOA site. I like to see what is going on in near states.

I have a CCW (called CPL) here in Michigan. I have been told numerous times that a gun in my possession within 1000 feet of a school, according to the Fed's, automatically gets me 10 years no questions asked.

I would be careful. Having a permit does not make you immune.

Lemme guess, the people that told you this are either police or gun shop employees?

[R L Suehr]

Lemme guess, the people that told you this are either police or gun shop employees?

^^^This^^^

Whomever told you this has never read the statute.

[streaker69]

A bus stop isn't school property unless it is in fact deeded to a school or a Right-of-Way issued to the school.

It can be argued that your transporting the kids to/from the bus stop isn't in defiance of §912(b) because you are transporting to/from home and a bus stop. Now if you drive your kids to/from school itself - yes, your car could be construed to be one of those "conveyance" mentioned in §912(b).

Just re-reading this gave me a thought. "To School" has no real definition either. It could be argued even if you enter school property, but dropped them off at the curb across the street, you still drove them "to school". You were still within the GFSZ when you dropped them off.

[90volts]

Good thing we are at school for a "lawful purpose" then.