cache of weapons found in falls twp

[MDJschool]

The lieutenant added that the man can no longer carry firearms because of Wednesday's involuntary commitment. The weapons will be destroyed, Ward said.

So we have something in the character of a door-to-door confiscation, followed by a summary forfeiture? God bless the police state.

Wouldn't it be entirely proper for the authorities to step in at this point? It would be completely analogous to being incarcerated for committing a crime. Yes we have individual rights, however, some of those rights are suspended or lost when you are imprisoned and for the term of your imprisonment. How, if the guy is proven to be batshit crazy, is it a bad thing that this guy is taken off the street and not allowed to pose a threat to the community?

There is no rule that an arrest or even a conviction mandates police entry into a home and a clearing out of firearms and ammunition. The dissimilarities don't end there.

A person arrested has an opportunity to post bail. Someone charged with a crime has time and ability to dispossess himself of his firearms prior to a conviction. Those who become prohibited under PA law by conviction even have up to 60 days to dispossess their firearms. Conviction requires guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (usually by a jury of one's peers) following a multistage process which we colloquially refer to sometimes as due process. How many adversarial hearings with his attorney present did this guy get before he was summarily jailed and his cache burgled? Zero.

There is very strict criteria to be involuntarily commited. The petitioner must prove that you are a harm to yourself, others or can no longer take care of yourself. No doctor will commit just for owning firearms and not agreeing with the government. It's also a two doctor process to 302 someone.

There's a very strict criteria for arrests, searches, and seizures under the constitutions. There's standards of probable cause, prima facie cases, guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, by competent evidence. No police will arrest just for owning firearms and not agreeing with the government. It's also a two executive-officer process to prosecute someone - a police officer and a DA. Yet how have we seen those standards and criteria eroded?

Both executive officers and medical personnel have little motivation to find someone law-abiding or sane. All they know is that they catch hell when they let someone go or miss identifying someone who is a criminal or is incompetent, and that person goes on to do harm. It is much less often that they will be punished for wrongfully imprisoning someone.

[LilEMT]

So we have something in the character of a door-to-door confiscation, followed by a summary forfeiture? God bless the police state.



There is no rule that an arrest or even a conviction mandates police entry into a home and a clearing out of firearms and ammunition. The dissimilarities don't end there.

A person arrested has an opportunity to post bail. Someone charged with a crime has time and ability to dispossess himself of his firearms prior to a conviction. Those who become prohibited under PA law by conviction even have up to 60 days to dispossess their firearms. Conviction requires guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (usually by a jury of one's peers) following a multistage process which we colloquially refer to sometimes as due process. How many adversarial hearings with his attorney present did this guy get before he was summarily jailed and his cache burgled? Zero.



There's a very strict criteria for arrests, searches, and seizures under the constitutions. There's standards of probable cause, prima facie cases, guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, by competent evidence. No police will arrest just for owning firearms and not agreeing with the government. It's also a two executive-officer process to prosecute someone - a police officer and a DA. Yet how have we seen those standards and criteria eroded?

I am aware of the law. I was responding to someone who mentioned mental illness

Both executive officers and medical personnel have little motivation to find someone law-abiding or sane. All they know is that they catch hell when they let someone go or miss identifying someone who is a criminal or is incompetent, and that person goes on to do harm. It is much less often that they will be punished for wrongfully imprisoning someone.

First off, are you an exectutive officer or medical personnel that deals with the mentally ill population? If not, how do you justify your statement?

Secondly, you would be surprised how often people do not meet criteria for a 302. I can not speak for LEO's but I can speak myself, since I am a psychiatric and emergency nurse. Medical staff do not declare anyone law abiding. That is not our job. Our job is to assess for psychiatric illness and thier safety both to themselves and to society.

There is also a appeals process that you can go through if you think you were wrongfully commited.

[NShortino]

That is that face of someone who just got an early christmas present...

Maybe there is more than we're being told, but even if the guy was doing something worthy of an arrest, taking the guys guns and destroying them is pretty screwed up. Something tells me a number of those guns won't end up ever being 'destroyed', even if there is paperwork saying they were...

[streaker69]

[TFB On]
What if the ATF were data mining their records. Looking for older persons that happen to have NFA items registered to them. Then create a story on how the person is unstable and pull a situation like this, just so they can ensure those NFA items don't get handed down...
[TFB Off]

[NuclearSociety]

Thats it?! Thats a CACHE of weapons? and ammunition?
Geez
And he wasn't charged with a crime but they SEIZED his property?

They also said all of the weapons will be destroyed and he will no longer be allowed to carry because he is being involuntarily committed, just because some crazy ass woman made some accusation.

Women are trouble...

[TFB On]
What if the ATF were data mining their records. Looking for older persons that happen to have NFA items registered to them. Then create a story on how the person is unstable and pull a situation like this, just so they can ensure those NFA items don't get handed down...
[TFB Off]

WTF is TFB?
Tin foil boat?

[FogleDW]

Many of the guns were kept in a safe

So they broke into his safe to get the other firearms?

[FAL-SHOOTER]

Just another day in the USSA.....

[PaBimmerGuy]

what it always comes down to is that the police did it because they can.

[XD45]

Am I wrong in the thinking that you can agree to a mental evaluation to avoid an involuntary commitment?

[XACEX]

HOW DID YOU ALL MISS THIS GEM? :


"It sounded like a car alarm, and then a robotic voice said, 'Dr. Scott, this is the police. We're here to help you. Pick up the phone.'"


classic.