Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    Have you ever heard of golfers recording themselves to analyze and better their swing? Personally, I think it is a great training aid and apply the same principle to my shooting.

    Up until recently I have been hitting the range with a small handheld Flim Camera. I would setup this camera beside me and record my shooting. This allowed me to see things like how horrible my stance was or how badly I was flinching.

    This has been a great asset for me but it limited how much I could see. To build on this, I picked up a Contour HD body mounted camera to get a better look at what was happening as I fired the gun. This camera, in addition to my Flip, has turned my range sessions into a bit of a Geek-fest but I enjoy being able to look back at my practice sessions.

    I've attached some video of my shooting down below. I'd like is to get some feedback on the areas where I need the most work. I've already determined that I need a lot of dry-fire practice to train me to focus on the front sight while pressing the trigger.

    My stance is, well, a stance of some sort. I don't know if it has a proper name but by leaning forward like I am, I feel like I have a more stable shooting platform than when I stand straight up.

    I'm shooting at about 10 yards at a 24x36 target (You may have seen this particular villain on an old episode of Scooby Doo). All of my shots are on paper (kind of hard to miss a target that size) but I want to tighten up my groups considerably.

    So, from a purely constructive standpoint, where do you think I need to spend the most time practicing?

    I've uploaded this video in HD which will allow you to go full-screen to better see what I'm doing.

    Thanks


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    Looks like your off hand is way too high and way too forward (wrapper too much around the grip) ... rotate your hand counterclockwise and lower it down the grip so you are locking the grip in better.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    This my sound stupid but reduce the size of your target i.e. use a 10-12 inch paper plate and spray it with yellow paint. the smaller target will force you to aim better , you look like you got the basics down but remember sight picture and trigger pull , the more you're suprised when the trigger breaks the better you will be , I have the problem that I am cross eyed dominate and do you know which eye is dominate?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    I didnt watch all of it , but from a quick review

    Try not leaning over superman style with your torso. Your stance needs a lot of work. The head should be upright so you are looking out the front of the eye, chest tall so you can breathe, and stagger your feet in a boxers stance.

    Dont walk the mags out on the reload, let them fall.
    keep the gun up near eye level. We talk alot about doing manipulations in your "workspace" , think about being the place where you would open a jar or thread a needle.
    If you want to go hand over top thats your choice, just know why, but there are faster comabt vetted ways of dropping the slide. Thats a stupid internet debate waiting to happen so lets not clog this thread with it.

    I didnt see your trigger finger in those vids (vids of the swing need to show the club ) but without a timer and seeing those hits it looks like your shooting too fast for the target , rushing through the press (maybe not slapping the trigger exactly) and I cant see if your resetting during recoil but it doesnt look like it.

    Grip will be another discussion. Clearly what your doing isnt working, as I can see your hands shift and grip become compromised during fire.

    you should check this place out
    www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com

    post the vids over there.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    Looks like your off hand is way too high and way too forward (wrapper too much around the grip) ... rotate your hand counterclockwise and lower it down the grip so you are locking the grip in better.
    Watching the video again, I see what you mean. I can actually see space between the heel of my support hand and the grip. Is this more like it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Huskyoverlord View Post
    This my sound stupid but reduce the size of your target i.e. use a 10-12 inch paper plate and spray it with yellow paint. the smaller target will force you to aim better , you look like you got the basics down but remember sight picture and trigger pull , the more you're suprised when the trigger breaks the better you will be , I have the problem that I am cross eyed dominate and do you know which eye is dominate?
    I'm right handed, right eye dominant. I've gotten better with not anticipating recoil. From time to time I flinch and it is very exaggerated. I didn't feel like that happened during this range trip.

    Aim small, miss small. I'll have to focus more on the interior dot instead of the large ring next time (I like shooting those big targets just because they are fun).


    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
    I didnt watch all of it , but from a quick review

    Try not leaning over superman style with your torso. Your stance needs a lot of work. The head should be upright so you are looking out the front of the eye, chest tall so you can breathe, and stagger your feet in a boxers stance.

    Dont walk the mags out on the reload, let them fall.
    keep the gun up near eye level. We talk alot about doing manipulations in your "workspace" , think about being the place where you would open a jar or thread a needle.
    If you want to go hand over top thats your choice, just know why, but there are faster comabt vetted ways of dropping the slide. Thats a stupid internet debate waiting to happen so lets not clog this thread with it.

    I didnt see your trigger finger in those vids (vids of the swing need to show the club ) but without a timer and seeing those hits it looks like your shooting too fast for the target , rushing through the press (maybe not slapping the trigger exactly) and I cant see if your resetting during recoil but it doesnt look like it.

    Grip will be another discussion. Clearly what your doing isnt working, as I can see your hands shift and grip become compromised during fire.

    you should check this place out
    www.firearmstrainingandtactics.com

    post the vids over there.
    The stance is something I've been getting mixed results with. I feel like the recoil makes me rock back if I'm not aggressively leaving forward. That causes problems itself, as you mentioned, because I'm craning my neck so that I'm looking straight ahead and not rolling my eyes to see the sights.

    Up until recently I've been rotating my wrist and using my thumb and index finger to operate the slide (I suppose that is what is referred to as the slingshot method). I had someone suggest I stop doing that and reach over the slide. It took some effort to stop doing what felt natural to reach over the slide. Honestly, I think I'd rather just use the slide release button but I can see how that can become a problem with my thumb slipping off the button before the slide drops.

    I'm not resetting the trigger after the shot breaks, I'm practically coming off of it completely and starting over again. This is something I need to work on with dry-fire practice. I think part of the problem is that I haven't developed a muscle memory on where the trigger resets, so rather than go slow and try to find it, I just let the trigger all the way out.

    Thanks for the link. I'll check that out.

    Also,
    I didn't think of it until after I typed up my response, but the introduction (music, pictures and video for the first 30 seconds) is just a clip that I use for my blog. The shooting that I'm talking about is further in and shows the target after each string of fire.

    Thanks for the feedback.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting



    David Borressen of TigerSwan from a recent pistol course demoing stance.

    Unlock your elbows, allow the arms to act as a shock absorber, put your weight forward on your feet, not by leaning forward. Think about like your about to sprint to the target, you want your wieght on your toes. To quote David above "If you where on ahardwood floor you should be able to slip a dime under your heel"



    I would be remiss if I didnt point out that the best suggestion I can give you is to take a quality firearms instruction course from a reputable instructor as soon as possible. Your going to have much better results having someone work with you personally than trying to figure out the basics on your own from random dudes on the internet.
    Last edited by Shawn.L; September 10th, 2011 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    I'm not resetting the trigger after the shot breaks, I'm practically coming off of it completely and starting over again. This is something I need to work on with dry-fire practice. I think part of the problem is that I haven't developed a muscle memory on where the trigger resets, so rather than go slow and try to find it, I just let the trigger all the way out.
    Larry Vickers does some great reset drills in his class

    so then I was seeing it right. You should attempt to keep contact with the trigger face. Press easy to the rear until the break, and as the gun lifts relax your finger and allow the guns reset to push it forward as the slide return home. Witha good nuetral grip and proper stance the gun will come back to where it was before and if you keep conatct with the trigger youll be ready to press another shot as soon as you see the sights back on target.

    By coming off the trigger face your forcing yourself to rush through the full trigger press for each shot, slapping the trigger and causing havok on your hits, youll also never be able to shooting fast AND accurately like that with anything but a super light game gun.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
    I would be remiss if I didnt point out that the best suggestion I can give you is to take a quality firearms instruction course from a reputable instructor as soon as possible. Your going to have much better results having someone work with you personally than trying to figure out the basics on your own from random dudes on the internet.
    I've been looking into taking a class and I'm not sure what I want to do just yet. It was kind of short notice when I found out but Masaad Ayoob was in town recently doing a MAG 40 Class. I would have loved to go but I couldn't swing it finically (Class, ammo, hotel, and a week off of work was too much. Maybe next year).

    There is a local couple that does NRA Instruction (I took their basic pistol safety class a few years ago and enjoyed it). They also teach the NRA Protection Outside the Home course. I'll have to give them a call and see what is involved with the class. I would imagine it is a few hours of instruction at the range (Basic Pistol Safety was classroom time and range time).

    Before I shot my first USPSA match, I was talking to the match director and he mentioned teaching individual classes. I have no idea what the cost is or what it entails (the guy seems to be one hell of a USPSA shooter but I'm not sure if that class focuses more on the fundamentals of shooting or more on how to adress USPSA stages).

    The last thing I considered was going to an InSights Training Class in the Harrisburg Area. I didn't spend a whole lot of time researching it, but form the little I read it certainly sounds do-able for me. I know a guy that has lots of great things to say about Front Sight but I don't know anyone that has attended an InSights class.

    I also have a friend that is a State Trooper. I wasn't aware of it when I met him but he has been a firearms instructor for years. We've talked about doing some shooting together but haven't been able to work out a time (he lives a couple hours away).

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by wwhite72082 View Post
    Watching the video again, I see what you mean. I can actually see space between the heel of my support hand and the grip. Is this more like it?

    That looks somewhat better but it is really hard to see without being there watching. The problem can be that even though you may be gripping the gun right at first as each round is fired you could be 'adjusting' your grip and not even knowing it. I had that problem and I also let my trigger finger slide deeper over the trigger while shooting. As I became aware of it I learned to stop and and mentally check where my hand was at and where my finger was on the trigger ... once I got through that it helped immensely.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Looking for some help to improve my shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn.L View Post
    Larry Vickers does some great reset drills in his class

    so then I was seeing it right. You should attempt to keep contact with the trigger face. Press easy to the rear until the break, and as the gun lifts relax your finger and allow the guns reset to push it forward as the slide return home. Witha good nuetral grip and proper stance the gun will come back to where it was before and if you keep conatct with the trigger youll be ready to press another shot as soon as you see the sights back on target.

    By coming off the trigger face your forcing yourself to rush through the full trigger press for each shot, slapping the trigger and causing havok on your hits, youll also never be able to shooting fast AND accurately like that with anything but a super light game gun.
    Do you think this is something that I can work on with dry-fire practice? I know that I can work on breaking the shot and resetting the trigger but will not having the recoil cause problems when I hit the range and try it with live fire?

    Can you recommend any classes in the Harrisburg Area (or even better, farther east)?

    Thanks for all the feedback

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