TTP's for OC

[Shawn.L]

I know a few of the OC crowd here have been with me through some of PeteG's Weapons Retention and Disarms seminars.
I belive in getting formal training when we have made the decsion to carry firearm, and when carrying one openly weapons retention becomes more paramount.

So, lets discuss what Techniques Tactics and Procedures are appropriate for those who choose to carry openly.

Clearly retention devices on holsters are front and center, as well as learning how to use those. But lets keep this on the software side of things.

Any of the OC folks who have become groups of friends ever get together with blue guns and practice ? What do you practice ?

What about SA in public ?

How about BUG's ? Practice deployment ? Time to first shot ? And how does practicing deploying a pocket pistol mesh with the reality of doing so meaning you have lost control already of your primary weapon ?

I see guys post about carrying blades for weapon retention (thumbs up) , what blade traing have you had ? How do you practice it along with your weapon retention ?

Anyone do and grappling with holstered replica gun on ? ( ask kaos about it )

[Signmaker]

Any of the OC folks who have become groups of friends ever get together with blue guns and practice ? What do you practice ?

Yes, have done a few sessions dealing with defense from gun grabs, as well as incorporating hands-on techniques while drawing and firing. Using empty-hand martial arts techniques in conjunction with a pistol is something you can only learn by doing.

What about SA in public ?

Tons of little people-tracking games out there that a person can do while out and about to keep the mental radar active. Counting different colored shirts, checking hands, maintaining a sphere of personal space, all good stuff.

I see guys post about carrying blades for weapon retention (thumbs up) , what blade traing have you had ? How do you practice it along with your weapon retention ?

Personally, I've scrapped the idea of planning to use an edged weapon for self defense. My pocket knife is a utilitarian tool that I consider a last-ditch improvised weapon. Lately I've been favoring the reach, force, and psychological advantages of expandable batons, though carry comfort still needs to be worked out.

Anyone do and grappling with holstered replica gun on ? ( ask kaos about it )

Actually no, have yet to do any force on force ground work with the dummy gun. Does it play out any different than being unarmed? I'd assume both my and the attacker's arms would be plenty busy, so not too much can be done until you create some breathing room.

[synergy]

Actually no, have yet to do any force on force ground work with the dummy gun. Does it play out any different than being unarmed? I'd assume both my and the attacker's arms would be plenty busy, so not too much can be done until you create some breathing room.

Why not?

This is one area where blades shine (especially fixed blades).

[Signmaker]

Why not?

This is one area where blades shine (especially fixed blades).

Haven't tried it with a holstered dummy guns for a few reasons. I know from empty hands martial arts experience that when defending from the ground, there are very few opportunities to have a hand be free long enough to deploy any kind of weapon. When on my back, carrying a sidearm at the 4:00 means I'm pretty much laying on it, making a gun grab very difficult. If I'm wrong, lets discuss the realities, and I'll start training it.

[synergy]

Haven't tried it with a holstered dummy guns for a few reasons. I know from empty hands martial arts experience that when defending from the ground, there are very few opportunities to have a hand be free long enough to deploy any kind of weapon. When on my back, carrying a sidearm at the 4:00 means I'm pretty much laying on it, making a gun grab very difficult. If I'm wrong, lets discuss the realities, and I'll start training it.

If I wanted the gun off of someone, and they either put both hands on it, or tried to lay on their back on it...I would drop bombs on them with either my fists, feet, or blades until they had nothing left.

The concept of two guys playing "gimmie that" with a gun like a couple of kids fighting over a toy is foreign to me.

If you commit to something with 2 hands, and I have a hand free...I've already won (my free hand is just going to jackhammer their face).

In fighting to keep your gun, you can't forget that you're also fighting to keep your life...and the two are not always the same thing.

[Shawn.L]

Personally, I've scrapped the idea of planning to use an edged weapon for self defense. My pocket knife is a utilitarian tool that I consider a last-ditch improvised weapon. Lately I've been favoring the reach, force, and psychological advantages of expandable batons, though carry comfort still needs to be worked out.

sorry I wasnt clear, Im not talking about pocket folding knives but rather small fixed blades.

[d90king]

What a great thread with very little participation. What gives?

[eheart]

I highly recommend this seminar. I attended the first one along with several other forum members and was very pleased with the class. But I lost my notes, anyone who's willing to lend?

[Carnes]

What a great thread with very little participation. What gives?

I dunno.

IMO, my first and foremost TTP for OC is having one or more sufficiently armed individuals, that I trust, along with me. 100% 360 degree situational awareness is not realistic when operating as an individual. As such, having some buddies along makes things much better.

Grappling with a gun, or other weapon, is very trainable. MACP system uses cheap stun-guns. Your opponent, or yourself, may or may not have a stun gun in their pocket. You grapple appropriately being careful to pay attention to their hands, and paying attention to times when you have a free hand to potentially deploy the weapon. It's a real eye opener, and the jolt associated with failure is powerful motivation which adds a compelling stress layer that makes the training very powerful.

[Signmaker]

If I wanted the gun off of someone, and they either put both hands on it, or tried to lay on their back on it...I would drop bombs on them with either my fists, feet, or blades until they had nothing left.

Being on the ground under an attacker is a really bad place to be in a fight, whether you're defending a sidearm or not. It's why people need to be as well versed in empty handed combat as they are in marksmanship, so when that bad guy comes to "drop bombs", we can have some "anti-air" defenses on our side.

The concept of two guys playing "gimmie that" with a gun like a couple of kids fighting over a toy is foreign to me.

Studying similar situations that have been caught on police dash cams or prison CCTV shows that "two children" is a fairly accurate depiction. Unskilled individuals play tug of war until something gives. Skilled people shut the other person down before they have a chance to lay hands on what they want to keep/take.

If you commit to something with 2 hands, and I have a hand free...I've already won (my free hand is just going to jackhammer their face).

Not a good rule to stick a hard line to, because it depends on what the two hands are doing, and how that affects the opponent's ability to "jackhammer". For example, a thug goes for a gun grab on an OCer, who responds by sending two hands to gain control of the thug's "grab" arm. Two arms trumps one, and if the OCer has been paying attention in empty-hands class, the thug will be in a world of hurt before they can start swinging with the other arm.

In fighting to keep your gun, you can't forget that you're also fighting to keep your life...and the two are not always the same thing.

Allowing a violent attacker get their hands on my weapon sounds like a pretty good way to increase the threat on my life, so if you can, I'd like to hear more on what you mean.