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January 16th, 2008, 04:26 AM #1Junior Member
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Open carry in the Williamsport area
Greetings all,
I am a proud gun owner from San Francisco, CA. A good friend of mine is currently in Williamsport, PA, dealing with some family issues; her sister is in the hospital with inoperable brain cancer, and her sister's estranged husband is attempting to mess with the family. The sister has custody of her 4-year-old son; the husband has visitation rights and there is a Protection from Abuse order against him. He has repeatedly violated the PFA and local LEOs are unwilling to enforce it. He has also threatened violence against my friend. Most recently, the husband removed the 4yo from his preschool in violation of the custody agreement and has disappeared with the child. Again, local LE refuses to get involved.
I am preparing to travel to PA to help my friend navigate the court system and get the police to do their job. Because of this man's threats of violence, I will be bringing my handgun with me; however, I do not have a CCW (they're pretty much impossible to get in SF, as you might imagine). I understand that open carry is legal in PA, with the exception of the Philadelphia area, and that non-LCTF holders may not carry while in a vehicle. The discussions on this forum have been very informative and I appreciate all the information that is being shared!
Do any readers here have experience with carrying openly in the Williamsport area? What sort of attitude can I expect from local LE? How about civilians -- will people freak out if they see a woman carrying a holstered handgun? Also, I see that it is illegal to carry on the grounds of an elementary or secondary school; does this apply to Head Start programs? I don't want to cause any disturbances or attract undue attention to myself, but in light of the threats that have already been made, not carrying is not an option. I just want to make sure I'm doing so in the most discreet and expedient possible fashion.
Thank you for your time. I appreciate any insight and advice you can provide.Last edited by CAvisitor; January 16th, 2008 at 04:29 AM.
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January 16th, 2008, 05:34 AM #2
Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
Out in Lycoming County you should have no problem at all OC'ing.
Just remember the contention that under some interpretations of the PA UFA, it is illegal to transport your handgun in a vehicle unless you fall within one of the very few exclusions.
I'm not saying this to try and discourage you (As anyone here will tell you, I'm an avid OCer and I do it every day), I just don't want to see you get in trouble.
§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
1. Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
2. Members of the army, navy or marine corps of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
3. The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
4. Any persons engaged in target shooting with rifle, pistol, or revolver, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the cartridges or shells are carried in a separate container and the rifle, pistol or revolver is unloaded.
5. Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
6. Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
7. Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
8. Any person while carrying a firearm unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police) or to a location to which the person has been directed to surrender firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the surrendered firearm.
9. Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
10. Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
11. Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.Last edited by lildobe; January 16th, 2008 at 05:38 AM.
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January 16th, 2008, 05:56 AM #3
Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
According to what I have seen here, Denny Nau, Sheriff of Centre County, PA is very acomodating about issuing non-resident LTCF's. There is apparently a requirement that the non-resident must have an equivalent license/permit from their home state. But it might not hurt to contact him and find out for sure. E-mail: dbnau@co.centre.pa.us Phone: (814) 355-6803
Good luck
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January 16th, 2008, 07:20 AM #4Junior Member
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Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
Thanks for the information! I will give Sheriff Nau's office a call in a couple of hours when they open. I'm afraid that since I don't have a California CCW they will say no, but it can't hurt to ask.
I'll follow up once I've spoken with the Sheriff's office. Having a LTCF would certainly be more convenient, given the transportation issue, but if nothing else I can OC. Much respect to the citizens of Pennsylvania for defending our right to keep and bear arms!
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January 16th, 2008, 07:57 AM #5
Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
You're welcome. As long as you would pass the background check, I don't see why they wouldn't issue you one, but rules are rules I guess. It's not like CA would recognize your PA LTCF anyway.
So I don't see the problem. Hopefully sheriff Nau will help you.
Do you have any type of firearm related card at all? I think some states require you to have a card just to purchase and own a firearm.
Let us know what happens.
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January 16th, 2008, 08:14 AM #6Junior Member
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Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
I am a 2LT in the Army National Guard, but that's as close as it gets. I bought my guns in Iowa when I lived there. Iowa requires only a phoned-in background check to purchase long guns (got my Remington 870 in less than five minutes!), and while you have to have a permit to purchase a handgun from an FFL, you can purchase from a private individual without a permit; I bought my Sig P226 from a co-worker who had owned it for several years, so no paperwork involved (and no concerns about "straw purchase"). Sadly, Iowa is a "may issue" state and the Johnson County Sheriff doesn't like to issue CCWs to non-LEO, so I've never held a CCW.
California doesn't require you to register guns if you bring them into the state when you move; there's an optional form that you can file with your local PD, but it's the gun owner's choice whether to file it and I haven't done so. (IIRC, the form just goes on file with the PD and you don't get a card or any sort of receipt, so it wouldn't help anyway.)
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January 16th, 2008, 08:22 AM #7
Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
You can apply for a Florida that would be good in PA and a crap load of other states too. You'd have to take a NRA sanctioned class, have your DD214 or a state sanctioned hunter safety course. Fingerprints and passport size pics would be required. However, that may take upto 60 days to get your license.
Utah's license is good here as well, the training requirement is a little more strict though - but cheaper than the FL license. ...not sure on the turn-around time.
You can try Sheriff Nau's office in Centre Co, but since California does issue licenses - you may be required to have one. It may be possible to get one if he feels the SF area is a non-issue place.
Does California allow you to apply in other counties? Or do you have to apply in the county you reside in? I know some of the counties in CA are pretty much "shall issue" in their policy.
Just remembered, Virginia issues non-resident licenses too without a home or other license not being needed.. Their's would be good here also.Last edited by knight0334; January 16th, 2008 at 08:25 AM.
RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515, SteveWag
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January 16th, 2008, 08:30 AM #8Active Member
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Pennsylvania
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Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
Williamsport is in Lycoming county, perhaps that sherrif would be more appropriate to contact if you're going to be in that area.
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January 16th, 2008, 08:31 AM #9Junior Member
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Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
Unfortunately, time is pretty tight here (a couple of days -- and to make matters worse, I'm currently in Europe and will be flying back early to deal with this situation), but I will definitely keep this in mind for the future. It's my fault for being unprepared, and one way or another I'm going to get the CCW situation rectified.
California does have a county residence requirement, yes. Some sheriffs are much more handgun friendly than San Francisco County or Santa Clara County, and some friends and I have seriously considered pooling our resources to buy some property in one of these counties so that we can change our legal place of residence and acquire permits, but property prices statewide are so insane that we haven't been able to pull that off yet.
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January 16th, 2008, 08:31 AM #10
Re: Open carry in the Williamsport area
Headstart - only off-limits if the headstart program is in a K-12 school, whether private or public. I'm sure it will create unwanted attention, but it is legal. K-12 school are legal to carry at for "other lawful purposes", but there is no caselaw defining "other lawful purposes" and you may end up being the caselaw.
Legally, once you get to your place of abode in PA. You can open carry from the door step, on foot, to your destinations. Empty or loaded makes no difference in a vehicle, you must have a license to carry unless you fall within once of the exemptions listed under §6106.RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515, SteveWag
Don't end up in my signature!
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