Staging your firearm...

[dmcdonnell]

Recently I bought a DeSantis Nemesis for my Glock 27. The idea is, to be able to stage my firearm in specific situations.

I normally carry in a Blackhawk Askins leather holster OWB, or a Bianchi 100, IWB and either carry my glock 23 or 27, and sometimes the glock 19.

I was talking to some friends who are retired military and retired LEO and we got onto the discussion of pocket carry. which all of us do with our .380 autos, etc.

I posed the same question to them as I am posting here now. In certain specific situations, for example, if you ar out at a restaurant, leaving the office, or maybe even taking a walk in a park somewhere, would you consider it a tactical advantage to be able to have a hand in your pocket resting on the handgun?

I train religiously on drawing and dry firing, to the point it has become almost second nature. However, it certain circumstances is occurs to me that if I staged the pistol from the holster at 3-4 oclock on my belt, to a strong side front pocket, I have effectively moved to step 1 in my draw training, having attained a grip on the pistol and I am prepared to draw.

I seems that it gives me a tactical advantage because I can move from this position to high ready in one movement.

Thoughts??

[Carnes]

There are some significant problems but, it sounds good in theory. Do you think you could test it in practice? Get a shot clock and run some presentation drills to see if a 'staged' pocket gun comes out faster.

Two of the biggest problems I see are, 1. How much will it slow you down if you are presented with a situation where you do not have the opportunity to stage the grip, and 2. if I desperately need to have a gun in my hand, I want it to be a full-size, not some little thing that fits neatly in my pocket.

Regardless, it is an interesting concept and I would like to see stats regarding how it performs.

[Huskyoverlord]

Don't want to sound like a dick or anything and I'm joe nobody but hear it goes , I really think you are over thinking this way to much , you either have a gun in your hand or you don't. I have removed my firearm from it's holster when I saw some weird shit or going into a bad hood ( while i am in my car ) but would do the same if I was out in public. People don't slap leather and gunfight any more that's old west shit , just have awareness and every sititution you see coming and prepare how you see fit , but sqauring off with a gangbanger and drawing it out at high noon is not going to happen. If in low light conditions just take the pistol out and hide it behind your leg then you won't have to worry about drawing you raise your arm and point and click. Awareness is the key , you could out draw anyone except if you don't see the other guy produce a firearm first you're going to get smoked! Keep you're finger off the trigger though as not to shoot yourself! But in closing the whole staging of a fire arm is almost silly

[Carnes]

Don't want to sound like a dick or anything and I'm joe nobody but hear it goes , I really think you are over thinking this way to much , you either have a gun in your hand or you don't. I have removed my firearm from it's holster when I saw some weird shit or going into a bad hood ( while i am in my car ) but would do the same if I was out in public. People don't slap leather and gunfight any more that's old west shit , just have awareness and every sititution you see coming and prepare how you see fit , but sqauring off with a gangbanger and drawing it out at high noon is not going to happen. If in low light conditions just take the pistol out and hide it behind your leg then you won't have to worry about drawing you raise your arm and point and click. Awareness is the key , you could out draw anyone except if you don't see the other guy produce a firearm first you're going to get smoked! Keep you're finger off the trigger though as not to shoot yourself! But in closing the whole staging of a fire arm is almost silly

Drawing a gun and hiding it behind your leg IS staging the gun. Also, I can think of a time or two where i would have been more comfortable with a staged gun, but it would have been inappropriate to draw, or even clear the cover garment to assume a good firing grip.

I am now considering pocket carry for a NAA mini as a BUG... I'll have to test it out.

[dmcdonnell]

Interesting points.. I think the safest way to try it would be to get a shot timer and using dummy rounds, pull and shoot and see how smooth it can get.. On the subject of the size of the gun, the pocket .380 is no problem at all, that is something I practice all the time.. the whole point of this idea was the fact that my Glock 27 in a DeSantis Nemesis in my front pocket IS a little too bulky for all day pocket carry, but in a specific scenario, staging it there just prior to walking to my car or wherever, that would necessitate walking a longer distance, I could stage the firearm in my front pocket and specifically have my hand on the grip as I am walking along. So your point about a smooth draw is spot on, since that is the only obstacle to this working as I envision it.

There are some significant problems but, it sounds good in theory. Do you think you could test it in practice? Get a shot clock and run some presentation drills to see if a 'staged' pocket gun comes out faster.

Two of the biggest problems I see are, 1. How much will it slow you down if you are presented with a situation where you do not have the opportunity to stage the grip, and 2. if I desperately need to have a gun in my hand, I want it to be a full-size, not some little thing that fits neatly in my pocket.

Regardless, it is an interesting concept and I would like to see stats regarding how it performs.

[indiandave]

I train religiously on drawing and dry firing, to the point it has become almost second nature.


A lot of people don't practice enough. You're one step ahead by doing this.

[dmcdonnell]

This was driven home for me at a class I attended with the FIRE Institute in July. They teach a 5 step draw, and I made it a point to practice the draw stroke with dummy rounds and finish each time with a trigger press and every so often, I add in a magazine change.

I train religiously on drawing and dry firing, to the point it has become almost second nature.


A lot of people don't practice enough. You're one step ahead by doing this.

[Signmaker]

I posed the same question to them as I am posting here now. In certain specific situations, for example, if you ar out at a restaurant, leaving the office, or maybe even taking a walk in a park somewhere, would you consider it a tactical advantage to be able to have a hand in your pocket resting on the handgun?

Depends. What are you comparing it to in search of an advantage? Compared to not having my hand on the gun in the pocket, I'd say that it is better to have a secure grip on the weapon as early as possible, given the hazards of drawing rapidly from the pocket. If we're comparing it to having a gun holstered on the belt, I'd say it depends on whether or not you can fire the gun on target from the pocket. For example, I blew holes in an old Dickies jacket with my snubby and found I'm accurate within a few feet. However I have never met a living human being who could put shots on target with a pistol in a pair of jeans. If it's warm and I cant utilize a jacket pocket, the advantage would be to carry on the belt.

Finally, another angle you should look at is how readily you can let go of the gun and get your hand out of your pocket in order to defend yourself hands-on. For example, you're presented with a sketchy situation, palm your pistol inside your pocket, but get rushed and dont have the distance or time needed to present and fire.

[synergy]

I've heard that called a "slow draw"...drawing your gun in a slow, controlled manor, with the idea that it may be used, but it's not required yet.

It's not JUST about speed, but also access and security. It's a lot harder to have your draw fouled or jammed if you already have it in your hands.

Access is often the most difficult part of the draw...getting it out of the way is great, whenever possible.

I do this from time to time with blades. When I'm pissing at a urinal, often times I'll either have one hand around the handle of my blade (or if I'm in a gas-station in the middle of the night, the blade is out, but hidden from plain view).

Establishing your grip (even in the holster) is a huge way to stack the deck in your favor.

Other stuff like putting your hand in your pocket with your thumb up and behind a cover garment is another trick to speed up your draw. Taking off a baseball cap and using it to mask what your other hand is doing is another.