Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    About a year or so ago I started a thread discussing what would make a fantastic hunting rifle. I received quite a bit of learned input and am appreciative. I fondled a number of the suggested weapons during the past year (senderos, Icons, M70's etc...) and none of them tickled my fancy. I thought I wanted a long heavy barrel, boy was I wrong.

    Most people think long barrels are needed for accuracy and velocity. The truth is that long barrels do not really do either. Granted, longer barrels let the propellant burn behind the projectile for a longer period of time. Today, many cartridges have propellant that is tuned quite well. Long barrels are not needed, yet they remain "traditional" as most buyers of a magnum rifle cartridge wants a 24+ inch barrel, there really is no need for one.

    I sound a bit crazy to the traditionalist, I know. However, testing with the exact rifle I show below with a 16.5 inch barrel shows a velocity loss of less than 5% when compared to a 24 inch barrel!!!

    Enter the Ruger Frontier M77 Mk II in .300 WSM:



    Blasphemy, right?!? How dare one use a short barrel for a traditional activity like hunting. I found in my research and fondling that a shorter barrel handles easier, is lighter (less forged steel) and performs similarly. Many detractor cite large muzzle blast and deafening noise when shooting a shorter barrel. I do not expect either of these things to be a problem since I wear ear protection (active headphones that amplify sounds and block out damaging sound, thanks bro for the present) and do not care about "blast."

    Now more pictures:


    The glass is a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28mm IER scout scope. The forward mounted scope does two great things that I enjoy, it allows me to keep both eyes open and it does not impede manipulation of the action.



    Here is a size comparison with my Bushmaster carbine:


    Here is my ideal big game hunting weaponry:

    Ruger Frontier with my 8 shot Smith and Wesson M&P R8 in .357 Magnum (5 inch barrel).

    Here is a reference photo showing size again:


    Now it is time go out and do some shooting...


    I guess this means I have to become a reloader, this thing is expensive to feed at 2-3 bucks a round. Where will I find the time!?!
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    Glad you found something you like.

    A question tho, how awkward is it to flip those butler creek covers up in a hurry? For example, a deer takes off from the brushpile you just walked past? It seems to me that your hands will be way out of place for either holding the gun or tripping the covers.

    Dale

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    I plan on hunting from a tree stand, an ambush hunter of sorts. Last season while bow hunting I missed a few opportunities for a variety of reasons and just smiled. The flip up covers are intended to protect the lenses, not for speed. If I need speed, I will keep them open.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    Quote Originally Posted by dk99358 View Post
    Glad you found something you like.

    A question tho, how awkward is it to flip those butler creek covers up in a hurry? For example, a deer takes off from the brushpile you just walked past? It seems to me that your hands will be way out of place for either holding the gun or tripping the covers.

    Dale
    If you hunt in the rain, you appreciate having them and hope the bastard deer will stand still long enough to pop them open. As for my ideal hunter, it is the old tried and true 336W 30-30 with the new Hornaday ammo. It is flat here with nothing but trees and twigs, so you can't hardly ever get a shot more than 200 yards. It is the one rifle I don't mind getting a ding or a pinch of rust on. I clean it, oil it, and it keeps on going.
    BCM and Glock...for a bigger pile of 'cold dead hands' brass.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_NEPhila View Post
    . . . I sound a bit crazy to the traditionalist, I know. However, testing with the exact rifle I show below with a 16.5 inch barrel shows a velocity loss of less than 5% when compared to a 24 inch barrel!!!
    I'm curious to what test you're referring to. This particular rifle isn't necessarily my cup of tea, but it's obvious that it has it's uses and would be very handy in a lot of shooting situations. I do have quite a few questions though.

    What test are you referring to, and are you able to pass on a link or scan of this test? Are we talking about factory ammunition, handloads, or both? I'm most interested in what weight of bullet/s that the test applies to. I'd be quite surprised if you only saw a 5% difference in velocity over some of the top loads using 180-190 grain bullets. I don't doubt that it's possible with the right powder and some of the lighter bullets. What kind of actual velocity are you getting with the RWS 184 grainers (chronograph data, not what they provide)? I'm not trying to pick a fight or arguement here, but I think that the statement above will apply on a fairly narrow set of conditions and not across the board with lots of different bullet weights, powders, etc. I'm curious to hear more. I'd love to be able to get 3,000 fps with 185 grain bullets out of a 16.5" .300 WSM, it would make my life a LOT easier. My handloads are doing a fair clip above 3K, but if 3,000 fps is possible with a 16.5" barrel and a 185 grain bullet, I definitely want to hear more. Sometimes tells me that it's not quite that simple.

    Oh and yes, you better get to reloading, you'll break the bank account quick with those ammo prices. Nice new setup.
    Last edited by Tomcat088; September 3rd, 2011 at 11:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    Reasonable questions Tomcat... here is the info:

    Dick Metcalf article on short barrels (Frontier in 7mm 08).
    http://archives.petersenshunting.com...-short-barrels

    GunBlast article with actual chronod loads in 180 grains for the .300 WSM:
    http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_FrontierRifle.htm

    In regards to the 180 grainers, most people get about 2900 FPS with 26 inch barrels. Jeff Quinn measured them at darn near 2800 out of a barrel 10 inches shorter!!! That is a significant finding.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    Quote Originally Posted by 300WM View Post
    If you hunt in the rain, you appreciate having them and hope the bastard deer will stand still long enough to pop them open.
    Not to hijack the thread but I have some of the Karamba rubber band types for my older scopes. Any new scope I purchase for big game hunting will be either Bushnell Elites (I have 2 already) or Sightron Big Skys as they both have a Rainguard type coating. Just can't stand the Butler Creeks, they seem unhandy as hell to me.

    Anyhow, it sounds like the OP has a plan, he'll just have to see how his plan holds up against the deer and weather.

    Dale

  8. #8
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    He compares two different cartridges.

    Using the same cartridge out of two different barrels will produce different velocities.

    So... the. 300wsm is compared to 30-06. Not a. 300 wsm out of a 24 inch.

    If you are shooting a rifle to be a rifle for any game in north America at 500 yards or less be it pronghorn out west or white tail in pa. The barrel length will make a difference. You would want to keep the bullet grain up or change according to game
    and conditions.


    So the ruger /06 is fine for pa deer but for long shots where 1000 lbs of energy is needed at a distance.... it may be short. Many choose 308 7mm .300 win mag. Some say. 260

    How is the recoil on a. 300 wsm with a lite gun?
    Last edited by thefirstndsecond; September 4th, 2011 at 05:05 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    For those asking about the covers, I use them. practice alittle and you can flip them quite fast. I luv em personally. Just takes practice!! Theyr not clumsy or hard to use.


    In regard to barrel length, that is gonna be loud( I know u dont care) and im in the crowd that finds it hard to believe that u get same speed from a 16.5" as a 24". Just doesnt make sence. More info
    Quote Originally Posted by Python73 View Post
    Shoot what you like, like what you shoot.Own what you like, like what you own.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The ideal hunting rifle... for me that is: Ruger Frontier.

    Saw this on another forum discussing the same type rifle/scope setup and thought I would post it.

    An occasional issue I've run into with a forward mounted scout scope was glare/reflection off the occular lense when the sun was low in the sky during last light.

    Just something to be aware of.

    Dale

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