New gun law could force Pa. to report mental health history

**NineseveN** · January 14th, 2008, 11:29 PM

Posted under fair use:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...8-1470213.html

New gun law could force Pa. to report mental health history
By: BEN FINLEY (Mon, Jan/14/2008)

Pennsylvanians who’ve been involuntarily committed to mental hospitals still can legally buy guns in other states — despite a 40-year-old federal law that says they can’t.

That’s because the Pennsylvania State Police do not report a person’s involuntary hospital stay to the FBI’s criminal background check system for gun buyers. So, other states are never aware of a Pennsylvanian being involuntarily committed.

The state police believe that sharing the information would violate federal privacy laws regarding medical records.

That might change soon. On Tuesday, President Bush signed a new law encouraging states to report the necessary mental health information to the FBI. The law offers more than $1 billion to states to improve their reporting systems as well as legal assistance for working out their privacy concerns.

The legislation, which is supported by the National Rifle Association, gained traction in Washington last year after the Virginia Tech massacre, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history.

Despite a proven history of mental illness in Virginia that would’ve barred him from buying firearms, the Virginia Tech shooter legally bought the two guns he used in the killings. His mental health history hadn’t made it to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

Since 1968, federal law has barred gun purchases by people who’ve been deemed mentally ill by a judge or other government entity. In the past, the federal government has tried to outright require states to report such information to the FBI. But in the 1990s, the Supreme Court struck down the requirement, saying states can’t be forced to take part in a federal program of that sort.

So, will the state police be “encouraged” by this new law?

“Our legal department is already looking at it,” said Lt. Gary Schuler, director of the firearms division of the Pennsylvania State Police. “And at some point, a final decision is going to be made as far as who is going to be reporting this information and how they’re going to do it.”

Pennsylvania’s counties collect information on people who’ve been involuntarily committed or deemed to be mentally defective by a judge, said Phil Fenster, who runs Bucks’ mental health and mental retardation division.

Fenster said the information is then faxed to the state police in Harrisburg on a weekly basis if not more often.

In Harrisburg, the state police maintain a database of persons who have been involuntarily committed in Pennsylvania, as required by state law. These people are disqualified from obtaining a weapon in Pennsylvania.

But the information is never shared with the FBI, and therefore other states, allowing such Pennsylvanians to legally buy guns across state lines.

By sharing the information, the state police said they believe they’d be violating HIPAA, the federal government’s Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. The immensely complicated law is designed to protect patients, including their privacy.

But HIPAA really doesn’t apply to reporting involuntary hospitalizations to the FBI, said Peter Swire, White House coordinator for HIPAA in 1999 and 2000.

Swire, now a law professor at Ohio State University, said HIPAA applies only to hospitals and insurance companies when it comes to sharing medical information. And hospitals can disclose information when it is required by law. In Pennsylvania, one such law is Act 77, which requires that involuntary commitments are reported to state police.

“HIPPA does not tell the state what to do,” Swire said.

NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons said the organization supports the notion that people who are legally deemed mentally ill shouldn’t buy guns.

But Mental Health America, an advocacy group for people with mental illness, neither supports that notion nor the original 1968 law.

“The law creates a presumption that an individual is forever a risk to society based on an illness they experienced one time,” said Ralph Ibson, MHA’s vice president for government affairs.

Despite the new law’s efforts to allow people to expunge their mental health records after a period of time, Ibson said it puts an unfair burden on people to clear their record.

There are other concerns, too.

“If the person has never had a weapon before and tries to go out and buy one, the new law could have an effect,” said Mark Wert, a sergeant in the Middletown Police Department.

“But what if the person already has a gun?”

The Associated Press contributed to this story. Ben Finley can be reached at 215-949-4203 or bfinley@phillyBurbs.com

The article left out that the ATF previously ruled that a Section 302 commitment in PA lacked due process and therefor was federally unconstitutional, which is why those were not reported or considered a disqualifying condition outside of the state. There is some concern that this will no longer be the case with the final version of the federal mental health bill (whether or not it's valid, I haven't bothered to really look into that specifically).

**unloved** · August 27th, 2008, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by e2eglobal10

Hi ....
I have observed one of the new forum in the site about the new gun....
It is so effective for the people who want to use that.. the features of the gun is so good....
================================================== =======
Steve
Virginia Drug Addiction

Huh???

**Evolution** · August 27th, 2008, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by e2eglobal10

Hi ....
I have observed one of the new forum in the site about the new gun....
It is so effective for the people who want to use that.. the features of the gun is so good....
================================================== =======
Steve
Virginia Drug Addiction

Originally Posted by unloved

Huh???

I 2nd that notion. WTF are you talking about?!?

**GunLawyer001** · August 27th, 2008, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by e2eglobal10

Hi ....
I have observed one of the new forum in the site about the new gun....
It is so effective for the people who want to use that.. the features of the gun is so good....
================================================== =======
Steve
Virginia Drug Addiction

I just Googled "e2eglobal10". You aren't from around here, are you? My guess would be China, maybe Japan.

**Lambo** · August 27th, 2008, 10:18 PM

It was attempted in Maryland and it was successful. When purchasing you must now sign a Waiver to your Right to Doctor/Patient Privledge.

**Emptymag** · August 27th, 2008, 10:42 PM

The "confusing" post above, was a spammer.

**Lambo** · August 27th, 2008, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by Emptymag

The "confusing" post above, was a spammer.

"Above".......referring to my Post?

**XD40coyote** · August 27th, 2008, 11:43 PM

The MD mental health waver is just for those involuntaries/ court ordered stays and possibly records of wether someone spent more than 30 consecutive days in a hospital voluntary or not. It does not have the SP delving into your private Dr records such as a general clinic/family Dr. However I note that on the application for the hard to get MD carry lisc, the SP does want that info as part of their background check- at least it is worded that way.

BTW most mentally ill people are not at all violent. I know some real charactors who are quite docile seeming. One talks BS all the time, another just plain talks too much, and the 3rd is a hunter, but whenever I talk to him he is very laid back. I think he may have had too much weed to smoke for too many years LOL- that by itself can cause brain damage over time that will resemble mental illness.