ATF Director Out

[Valorius]

I have been reading about it, but haven't seen any facts to back up your conspiracy theory.

The worst I can see is that there was a botched sting and the ATF tried to cover it up. How's that any different from business as usual with our government, like the billions of US tax dollars that are lining the pockets of military contractors and our enemies through fraud and incompetence?

If you had followed the hearings you would know these things.

[rikilii]

You DO know that a Border Patrol agent was killed with one of those guns, RIGHT?

Of course you are also apparently blithely ignorant of the close proximity in time of regime calls for new gun controls to prevent gun smuggling to Mexico and the regime's actual overt acts of ALLOWING guns to be smuggled into Mexico.

No, actually we DON'T know that a Border Patrol agent was killed with one of those guns. Unless I missed an important detail in all the stories I read, all we know is that one of those guns was recovered from the scene. Feel free to link a story that shows evidence otherwise.

Isn't one of our core mantras against new gun control, particularly with respect to so-called assault weapons being sold in border states, that the criminals would get these guns anyway even if they couldn't get them from US gun shops? How can we make that argument in one breath and then claim in the next that the ATF's incompetence (or worse, a conspiracy to justify more gun control) was the cause of that agent's death?

So you're suggesting that it's not a big deal, because "everyone else does it?"

No, I'm suggesting that it's ridiculous to claim that the mere shocking incompetence of a government agency is evidence of a conspiracy or treason.

[bluedog46]

No, I'm suggesting that it's ridiculous to claim that the mere shocking incompetence of a government agency is evidence of a conspiracy or treason.

Consdering the blatant disregard for the law by Obama I would not put this past him. You may not agree with laws, but as president you enforce them ( or king as many americans were stupid enough to annoint him)

1, Not defending the defense of marriage act. It was a bi-partisan law and is on the books. He is violating the law not defending it and doing it to pander to the devient lobby

2, de facto amensty for illegal invaders. Again he took an oath and they are a foreign enemy when you factor in what they and their anchor babies cost. Most people dont realize the most dangerous illegal alien is often a fertile female as the taxpayer can pay a forutne in food stamps, wic, and so forth for her kids

3 suing states for trying to protect themselves since the federal governmet has not taken proper action on immigration illegally. I know Bush,Reagan and so forth, but none of those men would sue a state to try to "out latino" the other party.


A gun enthusiest defending this administration is like a jew Defending hitler.

[son of the revolution]

I have been reading about it, but haven't seen any facts to back up your conspiracy theory.

The worst I can see is that there was a botched sting and the ATF tried to cover it up. How's that any different from business as usual with our government, like the billions of US tax dollars that are lining the pockets of military contractors and our enemies through fraud and incompetence?

The I STRONGLY suggest you mosey on over to www.Sipsey Street Irregulars.com and start reading, make sure you have a few DAYS of spare time to digest everything. Mike Vanderbough ( owner and blogger of the site) and Dave Codrea ( National Gun Rights Examiner) broke this story back in Dec 2010 and have sources at THE HIGHEST LEVELS. How ANYONE could read what they have uncovered and made available to the public and NOT rapidly conclude that F&F was in fact a deliberate conspiracy to make the case for tighter US Gun Control, involving Eric Holder, Janet Incompitano, Hillary Clinton, various members of the Cabinet and most certainly the Dear Leader himself, including felony violations of International Arms Smuggling Treaties, perjury, depraved indifference and accessory to murder, among numerous other charges, means the person is either intentionally denying the overwhelming evidence for some inane reason, or is simply to naive to realize the depth and scale of whats been done.

We now KNOW that the FBI intentionally manipulated the NCIC system to override denials in order to assist the ATF in facilitating weapons sales to prohibited individuals. And that is just 1/100th of the tip of the massive iceberg that is Fast and Furious

[rikilii]

A gun enthusiest defending this administration is like a jew Defending hitler.

I must have missed the part where I defended this administration.

How ANYONE could read what they have uncovered and made available to the public and NOT rapidly conclude that F&F was in fact a deliberate conspiracy...

If it's that obvious, perhaps you can point me directly to the smoking guns that demonstrate the existence of such a conspiracy, rather than suggesting that I spend DAYS of free time that I don't have sifting through reams of one-sided rantings on some blog written by some person I never heard of.

[ErSwnn]

Rikilii, consider the laws violated to enact this scam of law enforcement. Had you or I done one iota of this action we'd be deep in prison. There is amble evidence to conclude the high potential of this action having the ultimate agenda of bringing gun control to a new and frightening level. It was initiated by a group openly opposed to citizens having access to arms. There is documentation referring to the prospect of using the operation to curtail sales.

Our own government broke a lot of serious laws while arming violent foriegn criminals who have been killing without mercy anyone they want. All as a scam to attempt to prove that the majority of those arms came from the U.S. illegally. There is solid evidence that this isn't true, the arms have tended to come from South American countries and manufactured elsewhere, such as China. Meanwhile these people are shouting about the illegal gun trade causing American deaths....with the guns they sold to the murdering criminals. Yes, I have to agree with our more radical thinkers here. Some of these people belong in jail.

[son of the revolution]

I must have missed the part where I defended this administration.



If it's that obvious, perhaps you can point me directly to the smoking guns that demonstrate the existence of such a conspiracy, rather than suggesting that I spend DAYS of free time that I don't have sifting through reams of one-sided rantings on some blog written by some person I never heard of.

I dont do other peoples home work for them, paricularly when they dont bother to actually read what I write, pointing them directly to THE definitive source for the information and they snarkly dismiss it out of hand because its written by " someone they never heard of".

Maybe had you taken just a few minutes you would have discovered that there are PAGES and PAGES of Official Govt Docs and back and forth email exchanges between the various parties involved and hardly just the "one sided rantings " to which you allude. Enjoy your ignorance

[twoguns]

I will be very clear, the poster, rikilii is trolling. No one who has seriously read all of the supporting evidence, watched the hearings and digested the outright violation of multiple laws in this scandal could possible conclude that Gun-Walker was not a conspiracy to diminish the Natural Rights of American citizens as it pertains to keeping and bearing arms.

In addition, no would who had studied this information could honestly dismiss as "business as usual" the fact that these walked guns have contributed to the massive loss of life on the Mexican side of the border.

rikilii is a troll and should be heretofore ignored. I am submitting that statement to the moderators of this forum for them to review the posts.

Go away, rikilii.

[NuclearSociety]

YEP, THIS ^ Is what is happening.

Acting ATF Director Kenneth Melson has been reassigned to a lesser post in the Justice Department and the U.S. attorney for Arizona was also pushed out Tuesday as fallout from Operation Fast and Furious reached new heights.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz1XhdgTPNp

[rikilii]

I will be very clear, the poster, rikilii is trolling. No one who has seriously read all of the supporting evidence, watched the hearings and digested the outright violation of multiple laws in this scandal could possible conclude that Gun-Walker was not a conspiracy to diminish the Natural Rights of American citizens as it pertains to keeping and bearing arms.

In addition, no would who had studied this information could honestly dismiss as "business as usual" the fact that these walked guns have contributed to the massive loss of life on the Mexican side of the border.

rikilii is a troll and should be heretofore ignored. I am submitting that statement to the moderators of this forum for them to review the posts.

Go away, rikilii.

I am not trolling. I am genuinely asking you all to provide me a direct link to a the strongest evidence that supports that extraordinary claim. I spent a fair amount of time browsing that website and did not see it. Linking me to a website with literally thousands of blog entries is not an answer.

Normally when someone makes a extraordinary accusation against public officials, it's considered good form to provide direct, concise and coherent information in support of that accusation. I did not see anything of the sort on that website. If it was there, one would think that it would be front and center.

Your request for me to "go away" is nothing more than an admission that you can't tolerate an opposing view.

I dont do other peoples home work for them, paricularly when they dont bother to actually read what I write, pointing them directly to THE definitive source for the information and they snarkly dismiss it out of hand because its written by " someone they never heard of".

Maybe had you taken just a few minutes you would have discovered that there are PAGES and PAGES of Official Govt Docs and back and forth email exchanges between the various parties involved and hardly just the "one sided rantings " to which you allude. Enjoy your ignorance

Which is it, "a few minutes", or "days"? Why is it so hard for you to provide a direct link to all your smoking guns, no pun intended? I'm sorry, but I don't have several days of free time to sift through a massive hay stack of evidence to find the needle that supposedly supports your conspiracy theory.