Headspacing an Arisaka

**marstev** · September 25th, 2010, 10:03 PM

I just purchased my first Arisaka, Type 38, 6.5mm Jap, and am looking for a way to check the headspacing. This could be quite important since most of the bolts were mixed up over the years. I emailed Forster and they said they did not make them since there is no SAMMI specification for this caliber. i have not purchased any rounds for this yet, but I understand they are rimmed cases so it should be fairly simple with the right tooling.

**edritchey** · September 25th, 2010, 10:10 PM

I use one of these on those rifles.You will need the Universal Headspace and Chamber Depth Gauge
Subset A

http://www.manthei-mess-systeme.com/...pace_gauge.htm

Another option is the clymar gauges

Clymer Gages 6.5 Japanese:
Go 3.614"
NoGo 3.618"
Field 3.623"

**marstev** · September 26th, 2010, 12:20 AM

Thanks for the quick response.

I have come across the universal headspace gage when google'ing for info, but could not locate anyplace to purchase one. The sight you linked to, I think, only provides info, unless I missed something. This would seem to be a useful tool to have around, given the broad range of calibers it could serve.

I will look more into Clymer, but their websight didn't seem to list anything for the 6.5 Japanese caliber specifically, perhaps there is another suitable gage.

I do have a question about the dimensions you provided. Your dimensions were over three inches, seeming to indicate a lengthwise measurement of the headspacing. I thought on rimmed cartriges, the headspacing was measured as the thickness of the rim?

**edritchey** · September 26th, 2010, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by marstev

I have come across the universal headspace gage when google'ing for info, but could not locate anyplace to purchase one. The sight you linked to, I think, only provides info, unless I missed something. This would seem to be a useful tool to have around, given the broad range of calibers it could serve.

It will include instruction for your semi=rimmed case setup - If you buy the complete package it will include: 3 gauge heads with counter screw,3 gauge bases with counter screw,7 treaded rods,1 allen key. the correct base for your cartridge will come in the set. To get the current pricing you will need to fill out the online form. You can also call Axel Manthei at +49-(0)8191-66704 keep in mind the time zone differences.

Originally Posted by marstev

I do have a question about the dimensions you provided. Your dimensions were over three inches, seeming to indicate a lengthwise measurement of the headspacing. I thought on rimmed cartriges, the headspacing was measured as the thickness of the rim?

The info I gave was some info I collected a few years back off of one of the other online forums when I was tyring to figure out how to headspace the 6.5 jap cartridge. now looking at what I posted I noticed I didn't include all the original post info. here is the cut and paste I saved:

6.5 Japanese findings:

Using the 0.350" Stoney Point attachment (also zeros at 1.998") I recorded the following data:

Clymer Gages 6.5 Japanese:
Go 3.614"
NoGo 3.618"
Field 3.623"

Norma brass 3.606"
WWII ammo 3.610"
WWI ammo 3.600"
Kynock MkI 3.609"
Kynock MkII 3.589"
Chinese 3.615"
Norma(old) 3.603"

My Type 38 long just closes on NoGo so I still had quite a bit of distance to blow out the shoulders (about 0.012") on the new Norma brass. I expanded the necks to a larger size and partialy resized them till the bolt just closed. I annealed the brass after this operation. I fired them and they formed great, the only complaint is over the famous Norma bulge. I used cheap bullets and just picked a convienent medium load to form the brass and I was impressed by the accuracy of this rifle even with this arbitrary load.

I would try to get one of the universal gauge set I talked about above from Axel it will pay for itself over time.

**Innovative** · September 26th, 2010, 06:04 PM

If you are looking for the Universal Headspace Gauge, you'll find it on my website. I designed and patented this device, and I sell it under the name "Digital Headspace Gauge". So far, there are almost 1,000 of them in use.

This gauge calibrates to your particular chamber by measuring one of your fired cases. Then insert one of your handloads, and it will display the chamber clearance that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber (at the shoulder). Its main purpose is to help you set your die height perfectly to reduce case stretching. That increases the life of your brass, reduces case run-out and improves accuracy. [This tool is for reloaders and is obviously not designed to install barrels.]

It's incredibly easy to use, and it does the job of several different reloading tools. The best feature is its accuracy and repeatability. There's no need to measure something 10 times to get a good reading. It works on ALL different calibers, and it doesn't requite special bushings, fittings or attachments to use it. Check it out.

**marstev** · September 8th, 2011, 03:15 AM

Ok, time to revisit this topic. I still have yet to find a headspacing gage for my Arisaka, maybe there may be some new members with some info to share? The same old thing I keep being told is that since there are no "official" standards, gage makers have no dimensions to base off of.

That being said, I did get some ammo, and with a little apprehension, held the rifle at arms length, lined up on the burm, turned my head, and put the first round on target. Well, I didn't loose my hand, and still have an intact rifle. After about 15 rounds, I do have some interesting spent cases though. Some have primers that were pushed part way out of the brass, and others have holes punched in them from the firing pin. Interesting thing is that the ones that are pierced, have primers that are only slightly pushed out, not nearly as far as the ones that are not pierced.

Any thoughts?

**Ecclectic Collector** · September 8th, 2011, 05:58 AM

I had exactly the same experience with my Type 38 using some of the new Hornady classic ammo.

Shot half a box to test my rifle. Many cases had pierced primers. All the fired cases were visibly enlarged compared to the unfired ones. It is obvious that the bolt that was swapped on my rifle made it very out of spec.

I think I'm going to buy a 6.5mm case neck die and try to only resize the case mouth of each case before firing the cases again (and stick to bottom end loads in case their is some unseen head separation).

If this works out I'm just going to shoot it as is and only use the cases in that rifle. Sometimes it just isn't worth doing more with guns like this.

**Little Cloud** · September 8th, 2011, 09:22 AM

Sounds like excessive firing pin protrusion to me.

Check the firing pin spring and firing pin protrusion.

Due to this firearm being from the WW2 time frame, it might be a quick fix to swap out a spring and adjust protrusion.

Could be a bad batch of primers as well if you are shooting factory ammo.

Not too likely, but it is a variable.

I believe indicators of a headspace issue to include case separation and/or bolt face 'rings' imprinted on the base of the cartridge among others.

Check and compare OAL of the new/used brass to get an idea of whats happening in the chamber.

A tight chamber could cause the neck of the case to flow away from the action or in other words, stretch the casing.

I've experienced this stretched case syndrome with a tight chamber ... where the headspace checks out just fine within the minimum limit.

Pics ... we need pics.