Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #111
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Quote Originally Posted by PaBimmerGuy View Post
    does any paranoid person believe that he is paranoid?
    As far as I know, you are the only person to ever insinuate that I am paranoid for trying to make sure that my possessions and family's safety are secure.

    I would think that if I was indeed paranoid, I would also think that there were others thinking the same way about me as you do, but I don't. But I'm a truck driver, not a psychiatrist, what do I know.

    You're entitled to your opinion.

  2. #112
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Quote Originally Posted by 39flathead View Post
    When a kid shoots him/her self in the face/head or chest with a hand gun, just how would someone suppose they did that?

    With their thumbs, gun resting on the ground or against something.

    No gun is child proof, not a squeeze cocking HK, not a DA revolver with a heavy pull, none. The HK could easily be wedged down between a bed frame and box springs, a shelf with a gap in it, ect... The same as a DA revolver, even without a hammer could be fired if a toy was jammed into the trigger guard.

    As adults with children, it is ultimately up to each parent to make the decision on how to store firearms and to decide how accessible they are, but all the macho bullshit about who thinks they are some sort of expert ends when your decision results in your child losing their life.

    As long as you are prepared to live with your decision, go for it, my kids do not have access to guns, you do what you want.
    Well let's see, we have a gun that needs to be wedged down between a bed frame to discharge (and then, maybe), vs some guns that any kid can shoot in about 2 seconds flat. Have you ever fired or handled a P7?

    And where are we during the whole time where this kid is jamming our P7 down his bed frame? Again, the harder the gun is to discharge, the more time it buys fate to place an adult in the room and stop the kid from hurting himself.

    Anyway, which do you think is the better choice in a house with kids? A gun that he has to wedge between the wall and bureau (and really, im not seeing that one happening), or a Glock that a retarded monkey can fire in about 2 seconds flat?

    Seems obvious to me.

    Obviously, it'd be best if the kids could never get the guns. But if they do, some designs are far more forgiving than others.

    Far, far, far more forgiving.

    For instance, if a weapon has a magazine safety, and Jr. manages to hit the mag release button and pop the mag out, then the weapon is inert in any case. That feature alone does not make a gun much safer, but when all the other layers of safety systems are added in- ie, long DA trigger, manual safety, locked up in a drawer or safe....the layers all compliment each other.

    With kids, the more layers the better.

    With a gun like a glock, the kid doesn't have to do anything imaginative. It just has to pull that short, light trigger...and boom. That could literally happen in under 1 second of the child picking the gun up.
    Last edited by Valorius; August 29th, 2011 at 10:58 PM.

  3. #113
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Quote Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
    Well let's see, we have a gun that needs to be wedged down between a bed frame to discharge (and then, maybe), vs some guns that any kid can shoot in about 2 seconds flat. Have you ever fired or handled a P7?

    And where are we during the whole time where this kid is jamming our P7 down his bed frame? Again, the harder the gun is to discharge, the more time it buys fate to place an adult in the room and stop the kid from hurting himself.

    Anyway, which do you think is the better choice in a house with kids? A gun that he has to wedge between the wall and bureau (and really, im not seeing that one happening), or a Glock that a retarded monkey can fire in about 2 seconds flat?

    Seems obvious to me.

    Obviously, it'd be best if the kids could never get the guns. But if they do, some designs are far more forgiving than others.

    Far, far, far more forgiving.
    Some guns are harder to fire than others. A gun like the P7 is probably the most difficult for a small child to fire. It might add vital seconds to the time it takes for a kid to kill someone, which is good, I think most of the push back you've had is the suggestion (intentional or otherwise) that it in any way makes the gun safe to be left accessible to kids.

    The length of this argument is really out of all proportion to its importance. It's like arguing over whether you should store tylenol or ibuprofen in your medicine cabinet based on which is the most dangerous for your kids to eat by the handful. It's a minor detail, the most important thing is helping kids understand the dangers of firearms and preventing unsupervised access to them.

  4. #114
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Well if people think i think any gun is safe to leave around a toddler, i surely do not.

  5. #115
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Quote Originally Posted by Valorius View Post
    Well if people think i think any gun is safe to leave around a toddler, i surely do not.
    I agree, and I hope you can see how people might have got the wrong message from your initial statement that a P7 was "literally impossible" for a 3 year-old to operate.

  6. #116
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    I would hope that people would see that if their kid somehow got a handgun in their hands, that the P7 is the one least likely to kill that child, and probably by a very wide margin.

    During the decades that the P7 was a widely used police and military pistol, all over the world, many users were disarmed of their pistols. Yet in all that time, no P7 owner was ever shot with his own pistol, due to the unique squeeze cocking system. Even adrenaline charged felons don't know that the cocker has to be squeezed. It's not just a matter of strength. It's a matter of no other pistol operating in the same fashion as the P7 as well. (Source: Massad Ayoob)
    Last edited by Valorius; August 29th, 2011 at 11:58 PM.

  7. #117
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Like I was saying earlier, I don't think anyone is saying that any firearm is safe to be left laying around within the reach of children.

  8. #118
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    Default Re: Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

    Not even a P7.

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