Storing a gun loaded w/kids in the house

[West Chester]

Like the light, a laser is a huge advantage at night when Target identification is critical.

Lasers and night sights provide zero ability for target identification. They merely tell you where the muzzle is pointed.

The only target identification at night is with a good flashlight or turning inside lights on.

[new_shooter]

In agreement with the two above posts 100%!

More agreement. Don't under-estimate a child's ability to figure out a way to pull a hard to pull trigger. They are human critters with a mind that is geared towards working out puzzles. A toddler with a two handed grip, with two fingers on the trigger, can probably pull any trigger you'd want on a HD fire arm. And if two fingers can't do it, they know their thumbs are stronger. They'll turn the gun around so they can use two thumbs. Not good. (On edit, I just read the previous post where a pair of pictures of a toddler with a water bottle shows this two thumb method.)

Remember, figuring out the world is a child's 24/7 job from birth. That's what growing up is. If they can get access, and it can fire, they will find a way. Don't let them gain access.

I've looked at the Gun Vaults, and they've never seemed high quality. I've always thought they'd be easy to open just by levering the lid with a flat blade screw driver. Too large a gap between the lid and the lips of the box. I was a curious boy who tried to get into everything. I KNOW I would have 'tested' something like that when I was young.

[Valorius]

There's been some good things in this thread, but the idea that a heavy trigger pull is even remotely a deterrent to a child is laughable if it wasn't so deadly serious.

Opinions vary cuz.

No one has said it's impossible for a small kid to pull a DAO, just much, much harder than pulling a light, short trigger such as that on a glock.

If the heavier DAO trigger takes another 60 seconds for the kid to figure out (and i think it would take a lot longer than that on average), then that's another 60 seconds you have to catch them in the act before the weapon discharges.

I know petite female adults that cannot even properly manipulate a DAO trigger FFS.

And i still maintain that no child 5yo or younger could make an HK P7 fire, no matter how long you gave them.

[Valorius]

Obviously I do not want to encourage the "Here...pull daddy's pistol trigger for youtube" behavior, so that won't happen.

My word will have to be good enough, unfortunately.

However, I think I have an old pull-scale somewhere (or not...don't remember if it got tossed out) and I'll be happy to do a comparison.

You said your 3yo can easily pull your trigger on your pistol. Obviously, you've either A) let the kid try before, or B) you didn't.

Lasers and night sights provide zero ability for target identification. They merely tell you where the muzzle is pointed.

The only target identification at night is with a good flashlight or turning inside lights on.

Not true.

A green laser throws plenty of splash light for target identification...while not screwing your night vision up.

[camper]

You said your 3yo can easily pull your trigger on your pistol. Obviously, you've either A) let the kid try before, or B) you didn't.

No...I said that the cap gun has a trigger pull equal to or harder than my S&W 642 air weight.

A he can write his name with a pencil, so obviously he can do the same with a pen kind of assumptive comparison.

camper

[ByblosHex]

You said your 3yo can easily pull your trigger on your pistol. Obviously, you've either A) let the kid try before, or B) you didn't.


Not true.

A green laser throws plenty of splash light for target identification...while not screwing your night vision up.

My green lazer actually fills the room with ambient light. more than enough to ID targets. Youre right.

[Neko456]

I think its best to be a little slow on the draw then to risk something terrible happen because we wanted a gun available. I have a steel safe that my guns reside in there are a couple high under towels well out of sight and reach. But most at waist or chest level are locked away.

I learned this lesson in my 20s I had a Ruger Mk III on safety locked in a desk. I thought the safety was far too hard for the 31/2 yr. old toddler to get off let alone fire the gun. Anyway we heard a boom! ran inside the gun on the carpet warm and a scared little boy peeped out of his Mom's room. I never been so happy to see that little boy's face and he was ok. I thought it was secure in a closed room, locked cabinet draw with safety on tight.

[the1jeffy]

Opinions vary cuz.

No one has said it's impossible for a small kid to pull a DAO, just much, much harder than pulling a light, short trigger such as that on a glock.

If the heavier DAO trigger takes another 60 seconds for the kid to figure out (and i think it would take a lot longer than that on average), then that's another 60 seconds you have to catch them in the act before the weapon discharges.

I know petite female adults that cannot even properly manipulate a DAO trigger FFS.

And i still maintain that no child 5yo or younger could make an HK P7 fire, no matter how long you gave them.

Ok, cuz, you are correct, opinions do vary. You are entitled to yours, and you are also entitled to be dead wrong. I humbly suggest that, while your knowledge of firearms far exceeds my own, your knowledge of toddlers is severely lacking.

I used the spray bottle twice. I handed it to her. She immediately tried to pump the trigger, couldn't, and immediately turned it around, used both thumbs and promptly sprayed herself in the face in roughly 5 seconds. When her thumbs grew tired of that, she then quickly learned to use her body mass (easily 20 lb, so greater than any DOA trigger) to augment her spraying by bracing the bottle on the ground, again less than 5 seconds to deduce this.

I would like to think that my child is a unique, brilliant snowflake, but I am not love blinded enough to know that other children are just as quick on the uptake. Your 60 second theory is a farce and based in WAG-land. So once again, to even posit the theory that a heavy DAO is ANY type of deterrent is foolish - at best. Unless the trigger takes more force than the child's weight, it is no barrier. And a 20-30 pound trigger seems unrealistic to me.

I'm not familiar with the HK, but it appears that when braced on the ground all it would take is a toddler-foot to engage the grip safety device. I will bow to your authority, here, as I am unfamiliar with the firearm. However, I would still not take the risk that the HK is safe enough to leave loaded and within reach of a toddler. When you have kids, do what you want.

Your petite female anecdote is irrelevant, as they are trying to utilize the weapon normally. A toddler or child has no such motivation.

When discussing firearms it is generally acceptable to ask about the other person's experience level (LEO, military, years of carry, etc.) So I feel compelled to ask how many years of toddler experience you have?

[Valorius]

The trigger guard on a firearm makes a lot of the things that a kid can do with a spray bottle a lot harder to do with a firearm.

You cannot lay all the weight of the child directly onto the trigger (unless the kid slid it onto some sort of a fixed bar- ie through the trigger guard, then pushed the entire gun). A 3yo child trying to reverse the pistol and use both thumbs to squeeze would find most medium frame DA revolvers too large for them to apply any significant leverage with their thumbs.

Compared to a spray bottle, a typical DA trigger requires more force with less fingers to operate, and the triggerguard prevents the kid from really leaning his/her body weight into it.

Now, are some revolvers or other DA weapons easier to fire then some others? Yes, obviously...which is part of the reason why some guns are more forgiving around little kids than others.

You start out on the one end with a Glock being the most easy for a kid to discharge, and you run all the way up to the opposite end of the scale, which IMO is the HK P7, the most difficult weapon for a child to discharge.

None of them makes it impossible for the kid to fire (though the P7 comes damn close)...just a lot harder. The harder it is to fire, the longer it should take to fire, the more time it buys fate to intervene and save the kid before he manages to get the weapon to go boom.

My daddying experience: I have actually helped to raise several toddlers. I've had several live in girlfriends with little kids over the years, plus a God son that i helped to raise, plus 3 little sisters that i used to baby sit all the time when i was a teen ager. I have also been shooting since i was 5 years old.

[39flathead]

When a kid shoots him/her self in the face/head or chest with a hand gun, just how would someone suppose they did that?

With their thumbs, gun resting on the ground or against something.

No gun is child proof, not a squeeze cocking HK, not a DA revolver with a heavy pull, none. The HK could easily be wedged down between a bed frame and box springs, a shelf with a gap in it, ect... The same as a DA revolver, even without a hammer could be fired if a toy was jammed into the trigger guard.

As adults with children, it is ultimately up to each parent to make the decision on how to store firearms and to decide how accessible they are, but all the macho bullshit about who thinks they are some sort of expert ends when your decision results in your child losing their life.

As long as you are prepared to live with your decision, go for it, my kids do not have access to guns, you do what you want.