Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Hello. My brother is currently in the military, stationed in Texas. At the beginning of next year he and his family will be heading back over seas for the next 3 or 4 years. He would like to leave me his pistol to hold on to and use at the range from time to time while he is overseas. I would not be using for protection purposes. Simply safe keeping it for him while he's gone and plinking at the range. Is there a legal way for me to hold onto this pistol for him while he's gone? Without switching the registration to my name? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Unityville, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    There is no firearms registration in PA. If you have a LTCF, it would be permissable for him to lend you his firearm. If you do not have a LTCF, get one.

    Be safe (and licensed).

    Scott

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swarner793 View Post
    There is no firearms registration in PA. If you have a LTCF, it would be permissable for him to lend you his firearm. If you do not have a LTCF, get one.

    Be safe (and licensed).

    Scott
    ^^^^^This!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Also, if you don't have an LTCF (which would be silly) you can have the gun transfered at an ffl for a small fee.

    It's highly recommended that you do one or both of these things.

    (When I say recommended I mean imperative, if you mean to take possession of the firearm.)
    Last edited by rwb1500; August 22nd, 2011 at 12:56 PM.
    Selling off a a sizeable Spyderco collection here

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Thanks for the info guys. I thought obtaining an LTCF would take care of the issue but I just wanted to be sure. Can never be too careful. I'm just not too knowledgable when it comes to laws for handguns. I do not own any. I just didn't want to do the transfer at an ffl because he'll be taking the gun back when he comes home from overseas and then we'd have to transfer it back. So I'll be going to obtain my LTCF soon. Thanks again.

  6. #6
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    Chambersburg, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Is your brother a PA resident? If not, you must complete the transfer through an FFL.
    I am not a moderator.

  7. #7
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    Spring City, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by gnbrotz View Post
    Is your brother a PA resident? If not, you must complete the transfer through an FFL.
    THIS ^^^^^^

    If your brother is from Texas and you from Pennsylvania, the LTCF doesn't matter.... It must go through a FFL here in Pennsylvania.
    Μολὼν λάβε

  8. #8
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    State College, Pennsylvania
    (Centre County)
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    If the brother joined the military here in PA as a PA resident and has not changed his home of record with the military, he is still considered a PA resident no matter where he is stationed. If this is the case, he could hand carry the handgun(s) back to PA and allow his brother (after getting his LTCF) to take them for safe keeping (the loan) until he returns from his next duty station (overseas in this case).

    If he is not a PA resident, he can still have his brother store them for him. He could ship them to himself at his brothers address and his brother could store them until his return. Only thing in this case is that the brother could not handle/use/carry/plink/etc (possess) the guns sent to him.

    From the BATFE:
    Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

    In the above case, IMO, the military brothers "other lawful activity" would be storing the guns while he is out of the country. Or, he ships them there to hunt with before going overseas and leaves them there until he returns. Again, in this case, the brother in PA could not touch the guns.
    Ron
    USAF Ret E-8
    NRA Endowment Member

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillD62 View Post
    If he loans him the gun personally instead of shipping it and the person receiving the gun has an LTCF is that legal?

    I took the Pa gun law course offered by Phil Kline and he told me that a friend of mine who was there from Florida could loan me a handgun because I had a Pa LTCF but I could not loan him one because he had a Florida carry permit and no Pa LTCF.

    Bill
    That's likely a case of "when in Rome." Title 18 6115 states in part:

    Quote Originally Posted by PA C.S. Title 18 6115
    (a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
    (b) Exception.--
    (1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:
    (i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

    In the case of an owner of firearms who is not a PA LTCF holder, whether said is a PA resident or not, the law that applies with regard to lending of firearms is that of the Commonwealth, as quoted above. Thus, as only the RECIPIENT is legally required to have an LTCF, a person who does not possess a PA LTCF may lend a firearm to a PA LTCF holder when both parties are in PA.


    Personally, I have made extensive use of the above quoted exemption; For the first 3-6 months I had my LTCF, I carried a borrowed pistol almost daily, and from time to time I still borrow pistols and/or other firearms. Now that my collection of firearms has expanded somewhat, I have begun to make use of the above exemption in the other direction. That said, I wouldn't trust just *anyone* with my pistols; Thus far, I've only ever borrowed/lent from/to my brother and father -- there isn't anyone else in whom I have enough trust to allow them to carry my firearms.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can I legally carry my brother's pistol?

    Quote Originally Posted by BillD62 View Post
    If he loans him the gun personally instead of shipping it and the person receiving the gun has an LTCF is that legal?

    I took the Pa gun law course offered by Phil Kline and he told me that a friend of mine who was there from Florida could loan me a handgun because I had a Pa LTCF but I could not loan him one because he had a Florida carry permit and no Pa LTCF.

    Bill
    Unless the loan is for sporting purposes' (which OC/CC is not), noone can loan a firearm to someone from another state under FEDERAL law:

    18 USC 922
    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
    As to the 6115 exemption I don't understand why a person with a reciprocated CCW (ex:FL) would not qualify for the exemption
    (i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses
    since the reciprocity agreement is pursuant to 6109(k) (Phil could you confirm?).
    IANAL

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