Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default New to Philadelphia

    I'm a California resident moving to Philadelphia. I've done a lot of research, but I still have some questions I was hoping to get answered if possible. I've read chivalrouscarry's "So you're moving to Philadelphia" post here (which is great) but it doesn't quite answer all of my questions.

    I am going to apply for Pennsylvania residency to get my Pennsylvania driver's license ASAP. I also want to apply for LTCF given the "first-class" status of Philadelphia. Forgive me if any of my questions seem laughable; I'm coming from the most restrictive state in the union so even with Philadelphia's hoops, it's still better.

    1. I am leasing an apartment in Philadelphia for now until I get to better know the city. Are there any restrictions on carry within my leased property? I know this sounds silly, but I've seen some pretty absurd laws try to get passed before.

    2. Where I'm really confused right now is this: how do I transport my guns to a firing range? If Philadelphia is a "first-class" city and requires LTCF for carry on public streets, how do I legally transport my firearm at all? Unloaded and locked with ammo in a separate container, only in a motor vehicle? Am I allowed to lock and unload a handgun and stow it in a backpack to walk/bike/motorcycle to a range? The law for Pennsylvania transport is confusing and I can't figure out the lawful way to carry a firearm without LTCF.

    3. According to the Philadelphia Police website, it seems that LTCF references need to be from not just Pennsylvania, but Philadelphia residents. I've plenty of out-of-state references I could list for now, but can I actually use them, or do I need to make some new friends?

    4. I see that some of you have non-resident FL concealed carry permits instead of or in addition to PA LTCF. Why?


    Thanks in advance. Given the pressures on firearm owners these days, I always want to make sure that things are 100% legal. I've always found that the best way to relieve people of concerns regarding firearms is to try to set the best example I can in being responsible with my firearms.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Quote Originally Posted by pocketaces View Post
    I'm a California resident moving to Philadelphia. I've done a lot of research, but I still have some questions I was hoping to get answered if possible. I've read chivalrouscarry's "So you're moving to Philadelphia" post here (which is great) but it doesn't quite answer all of my questions.

    I am going to apply for Pennsylvania residency to get my Pennsylvania driver's license ASAP. I also want to apply for LTCF given the "first-class" status of Philadelphia. Forgive me if any of my questions seem laughable; I'm coming from the most restrictive state in the union so even with Philadelphia's hoops, it's still better.

    1. I am leasing an apartment in Philadelphia for now until I get to better know the city. Are there any restrictions on carry within my leased property? I know this sounds silly, but I've seen some pretty absurd laws try to get passed before.

    2. Where I'm really confused right now is this: how do I transport my guns to a firing range? If Philadelphia is a "first-class" city and requires LTCF for carry on public streets, how do I legally transport my firearm at all? Unloaded and locked with ammo in a separate container, only in a motor vehicle? Am I allowed to lock and unload a handgun and stow it in a backpack to walk/bike/motorcycle to a range? The law for Pennsylvania transport is confusing and I can't figure out the lawful way to carry a firearm without LTCF.

    3. According to the Philadelphia Police website, it seems that LTCF references need to be from not just Pennsylvania, but Philadelphia residents. I've plenty of out-of-state references I could list for now, but can I actually use them, or do I need to make some new friends?

    4. I see that some of you have non-resident FL concealed carry permits instead of or in addition to PA LTCF. Why?


    Thanks in advance. Given the pressures on firearm owners these days, I always want to make sure that things are 100% legal. I've always found that the best way to relieve people of concerns regarding firearms is to try to set the best example I can in being responsible with my firearms.
    1. There shouldn't be. There are no laws, but check the lease before signing it to see if there are any restrictions on firearms. I would be very surprised if there was, but it can't help to check. If there is no mention of firearms don't bring it up either!

    2. Here's the law:
    (a) Offense defined.--
    (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    (1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
    (2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
    (3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
    (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.
    (5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
    (6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
    (7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
    (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.
    (9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
    (10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
    (12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
    (13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
    (14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).
    (15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
    (i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
    (ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
    (16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).
    IMO, the law is pretty straightforward. You can't possess a firearm (handgun) in your vehicle or concealed on or about your person UNLESS you fall under one of the exceptions. It is also illegal to open carry without a license in Philly. If you want to go target shooting just make sure the gun is unloaded and go DIRECTLY from your house to the range and back. Don't make any stops or you risk losing the protection of the exception.

    3. There is no legal requirement that references be from your city of residence, your state of residence, or even from this planet. However, I have no experience with the Philly "gun permit unit" and I have no idea how strict they are with references. Lehigh County "requires" references from Lehigh County. I provided one reference from Jersey and didn't have a problem. But I have no experience with Philly so your experience may differ from mine.

    4. Pretty simple, other permits are honored in states that do not honor PA. For example, I got a AZ permit so I could carry in OH, DE, and NM. None of those states will recognize PA but they will recognize AZ. Here's a great site for information on reciprocity.
    http://handgunlaw.us/


    Hope that helps, and no, I'm not a lawyer.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be construed as legal advice.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Quote Originally Posted by zackattack784 View Post
    3. However, I have no experience with the Philly "gun permit unit" and I have no idea how strict they are with references.
    When I applied in Philly, my references were from PA but not from Philly. Not only didn't it matter, they were never contacted.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Quote Originally Posted by FNG19 View Post
    When I applied in Philly, my references were from PA but not from Philly. Not only didn't it matter, they were never contacted.
    And now you have your answer OP .

    Thanks FNG.
    I am not a lawyer and nothing I say should be construed as legal advice.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Thank you both. I missed the "target range" exception posted above when I read that law late last night.

    Just to clarify, it appears that I can carry an unloaded concealed firearm upon my person as long as I'm going directly to/from a target range. I'd lock it up and would just buy ammunition at the range if I stuck it in my backpack/briefcase/whatever to take it to a range. Parking around here doesn't seem to be too easy.

    California had a similar type of thing but the weapon had to be unloaded/locked and ammo stored separately from the locked firearm, and carrying on one's person was still a gray area.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Don't move here. Live outside the city....

    I regret it everyday and constantly plan my departure.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Quote Originally Posted by thefirstndsecond View Post
    Don't move here. Live outside the city....

    I regret it everyday and constantly plan my departure.
    Well, that's not currently an option given that I have signed a lease. If this place sucks, I'll move when it's up.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    For the record my references were from out of state.

    Nothing was ever said about my references.

    There was not anything on my forms requiring the references be from PA or the city. Remember the website can say a lot, but it does not mean it is legal or a legal requirement.

    I am not trying to misguide you, but rather explain the mistrust between Philadelphia Gun Unit and what they feel is legal versus what is actually legal.

    I applied in 2008.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    Welcome to Philly. I've been here all of my 50 years.

    The references shouldn't be a problem other than that just make sure you have all of the paperwork in perfect order.

    By the way, what part of Philly did you move to?
    MikeP - Christian, Patriot, Straight, White, Male, Conservative, Gun Owner

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default Re: New to Philadelphia

    I'll say welcome to Pennsylvania, but try to get out of Philadelphia if ya can.
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