Conceal carry in Butler area? Need details.

[M70TN]

Hello all,


Looks like we may be up your way soon. I have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit, which is reciprocal with Pennsylvania.

I am curious to know what the up-to-the-minute PA and local laws are on conceal carry in restaurants and parks. In the Williamson County, TN suburb in which I live, conceal carry is permitted in local parks.

I'd spoken to the mayor here in fact about this over the telephone and he acknowledged that criminals with murderous intent won't be deterred in the slightest by "GUN FREE ZONE" signs. Of course, as we all know here, that's stating the obvious.

We often take our daughter to Alameda Park in Butler to play. Is conceal carry permitted with a permit there? Any other parks?

What about restaurants? Here in Tennessee, unless otherwise specified with a notice on restaurant doors, conceal carry is permitted if the HCP holder is not consuming alcoholic beverages. What are the Pennsylvania and local laws regarding this?

While I'm at it, if you have any favorite restaurant recommendations, I wouldn't mind hearing those either. I think Rey Azteca is pretty good. Was a pleasant surprise to find in Butler and is pretty authentic. We also like Villa Grande. If there's a really good Italian/pizza place in Middle Tennessee, we have yet to find it...

Anyway, if anyone can help with the above, I'd be most appreciative. I know I can spend time searching the internet for the relevant laws and regulations, but if it's anything like it is here, things can change almost day to day. I've sometimes felt like I need a fax machine in my truck to know where I'm allowed to carry and where I can't carry.


Thank in advance.

[rsautox]

You can CC in any parks here. The state allows cc, according to the DCNR Web site. County & local governments aren't allowed to pass their own gun laws, so you're OK in non-state parks too. As for restaurants, CC is legal, but an individual restaurant could have a no-gun policy. Worst that could happen, if they saw your gun, is they could ask you to leave and cite you for trespassing if you didn't.

Have a great trip!

[Connal]

Hello all,


Looks like we may be up your way soon. I have a Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit, which is reciprocal with Pennsylvania.

First step is done. You have done some research.

I am curious to know what the up-to-the-minute PA and local laws are on conceal carry in restaurants and parks. In the Williamson County, TN suburb in which I live, conceal carry is permitted in local parks.

CC, and OC is allowed in most parks here. CC is allowed in all. I suppose, if someone were to use private property, and someone refered to it as a park, it would be different.

I'd spoken to the mayor here in fact about this over the telephone and he acknowledged that criminals with murderous intent won't be deterred in the slightest by "GUN FREE ZONE" signs. Of course, as we all know here, that's stating the obvious.

Gun free zone signs in a park won't only fail to stop the bad guys, it will fail to stop an educated good guy. Pre-emption restricts them from making that law.

We often take our daughter to Alameda Park in Butler to play. Is conceal carry permitted with a permit there? Any other parks?

Never been there, but if it is a run of the mill park, you have nothing to worry about.

What about restaurants? Here in Tennessee, unless otherwise specified with a notice on restaurant doors, conceal carry is permitted if the HCP holder is not consuming alcoholic beverages. What are the Pennsylvania and local laws regarding this?

There is an argument, that if it is posted, and you carry, you are "trespassing". Not posted, fair game. As for the booze. Many recomend against it. However, if you are able to show restraint, and not get fit shaced, you are fine. I myself have often carried and had a drink.

While I'm at it, if you have any favorite restaurant recommendations, I wouldn't mind hearing those either. I think Rey Azteca is pretty good. Was a pleasant surprise to find in Butler and is pretty authentic. We also like Villa Grande. If there's a really good Italian/pizza place in Middle Tennessee, we have yet to find it...

Only place I will recomend in butler. Playthings etc. Best toy store ever. It isn't video games, and the like. Yo-yos, pogo sticks, board games. The classics that everyone loves. Ever seen a grown man giggle like an idiot walking on stilts? You might, I go there once every few weeks. Love that place.

Anyway, if anyone can help with the above, I'd be most appreciative. I know I can spend time searching the internet for the relevant laws and regulations, but if it's anything like it is here, things can change almost day to day. I've sometimes felt like I need a fax machine in my truck to know where I'm allowed to carry and where I can't carry.



Thank in advance.

Hope that helps out a bit.

[M70TN]

Thank you very much for the replies. Much appreciated.

I had tried to do some research, even tried calling the non-emergency telephone number of the Butler police the other day. (but it was after their closing time for non-emergency calls).

Again, my concern was that laws could vary from one minute to the next as they have here in Tennessee, although much of that hopefully is behind us now. Also, here communities can "opt out" of state laws regarding conceal carry in parks as Thompson's Station, Franklin and Murfreesboro have done here. This of course, only guarantees that those with ill intent can count on not having to worry about law-abiding citizens fighting back. Makes sense, huh? Some of it's rather ludicrous, such as the NO GUN ZONE sign at a small monument marking the place where Confederate General Patrick Cleburne died during the Battle of Franklin. It's absurd: I'd have to walk back to my truck to put my handgun in it before I can walk a few yards to read a plaque. What does anything really think is going to happen there? Do they really think there are going to be mobs of Civil War buffs with HCPs who are going to argue about the Civil War and then engage in gunplay? It's nuts.

There was a tempest in a tea cup here about Guns In Bars and the anti-gunners seized on this, claiming that tourism here in the Nashville area will be severely curtailed if guns are permitted in bars and restaurants. Frequent hysterical and hoary references to "the wild west" and "gun nuts" were made in local media and implications made that patrons would be regularly be subjected to Normandy Beach type crossfires. I don't have to tell any of you that none of that actually happened.

For a time there, it was tricky to know if conceal carry was legal or not in restaurants and even what strictly constituted a bar versus a restaurant. For a time, no one seemed sure and calling one county police officer who teaches HCP classes and the Tennessee Department of Safety revealed their uncertainty too.

One activist judge struck down a conceal carry law regarding restaurants as "unconstitutional" and "too vague." That's all been sorted out and it's now legal again, aside from restaurants which clearly post No Guns notices. And locally there's a local Mexican place that posts No Guns with the universal circle/slash sign with a handgun in the center. And they don't get my business either.

We did have an incident a few years ago in which someone was open carrying a Draco AK-47 pistol in a local park — which is legal, and which generated many panicked calls to the police. The police did detain him for some time. Some of you may have seen something about that. I don't own a Draco, but if I did, I don't think I'd be carrying it through a park, legal or not, as it's just going to cause trouble. The guy who did this seems to want some attention for himself and previously was stopped walking on the side of a heavily traveled road with a pair of flintlock pistols for some reason.

Again, I appreciate the help. I was worried that the laws in Pennsylvania could vary quite a bit by locale and the latest developments.

We have a three year old daughter, so we're going to be sure to check out the recommended toy store. I'm also going to check out that Sportsman's Supply store while there. As I'd mentioned in another thread, last time I was in Butler, I was so sick with the flu, I could barely get out of bed. So I never got to do that.

It'll also be nice to get to some cooler weather for a change. We're originally from the North Hills of Pittsburgh, so it's fun to get back every now and then. Just don't like the drive as much.