Private Sale Pistol Transfer question

[Gun_'n_Run]

Hello all, first time poster, short time lurker.

I have a question regarding the legality of making a private purchase of a pistol. Short Background, my neighbor needs money to cover some medical expenses, and among all the other things he's selling, he has an older Ruger .22 semi-auto pistol (I haven't seen it, I assume it's an older Mk.I or II).

Anyway, I'm only 18. I see it as a good deal all around; he gets a fair amount for the gun, and I get a nice plinker.

I've never purchased a firearm from an FFL holder. In fact the only firearm I have is my grandfathers old Mossberg 146 B-A .22 rifle, which was handed down to me. But I can legally purchase and possess firearms.

I don't know what the process is for a transfer in a private sale. I understand that one must fill out a Form 4473 when purchasing a weapon from an FFL, but a friend of mine's dad said that all pistols sales have to go through an FFL holder. He also said, when I asked him about it, that a local sheriff can sign off on pistol transfers to under-21yo's, but probably wouldn't, depending on the guy. Is this true?

----I see I'm rambling, so I guess I'll boil it down to a few questions:

-Can an 18 year old legally purchase a pistol in a private sale in PA?
-Does this transfer have to take place in a FFL holders business, and does paperwork need filled out? If not, is it as simple as: "Here's the cash." "Here's the Gun." "Have a pleasant day, sir." "You too, sonny..."?
-If a pistol has to be transferred with an FFL holder, can this legally be done to someone under the age of 21, and, if it can, does it require any special signatures or permissions?

Thanks, all! Have a good day.

[knight0334]

The only options you have are:

1. go to a SHERIFF and do the transfer there, ...if your sheriff will do it - most wont.
2. have the person transfer the handgun to one of your parents, then they can give/sell it to you


A FFL cannot do a private transfer of a handgun to a person under 21. For the FFL to do the transfer, he must perform a PICS call on you. To do that he must add the handgun to his bound book. Once in his bound book you must be 21 by federal law to receive the handgun from the FFL.

[GunLawyer001]

The only options you have are:

1. go to a SHERIFF and do the transfer there, ...if your sheriff will do it - most wont.
2. have the person transfer the handgun to one of your parents, then they can give/sell it to you


A FFL cannot do a private transfer of a handgun to a person under 21. For the FFL to do the transfer, he must perform a PICS call on you. To do that he must add the handgun to his bound book. Once in his bound book you must be 21 by federal law to receive the handgun from the FFL.

I can't recommend this, it's more like a straw purchase than it's like a bona fide gift, and even a parent/child transfer is subject to the straw purchase rules.

If you provide the cash and the parent is merely using the FFL to obtain the gun to immediately give it to you, then that's not within the exception for bona fide gifts.

You've got 2 issues here: Is the parent the actual purchaser, and is the transfer from parent to child legal.

The transfer from parent to child is an exception under the PA rule regarding handgun transfers.

But the child being the actual purchaser means that the parent commits a crime by telling the FFL that he is the actual purchaser. "Gifts" don't include "the kid is buying it but needs the parent to do the paperwork."

[IV_Warrior]

But the child being the actual purchaser means that the parent commits a crime by telling the FFL that he is the actual purchaser. "Gifts" don't include "the kid is buying it but needs the parent to do the paperwork."

This. So, save YOUR money for ammo or accessories, and talk your parents into buying it and giving it to you as a gift. Got a birthday coming up? Christmas isn't that far off.....

[Noah_Zark]

I can't recommend this, it's more like a straw purchase than it's like a bona fide gift, and even a parent/child transfer is subject to the straw purchase rules.

If you provide the cash and the parent is merely using the FFL to obtain the gun to immediately give it to you, then that's not within the exception for bona fide gifts.

You've got 2 issues here: 1) Is the parent the actual purchaser, and 2) Is the transfer from parent to child legal?

2) The transfer from parent to child is an exception under the PA rule regarding handgun transfers.

But 1) the child being the actual purchaser means that the parent commits a crime by telling the FFL that he is the actual purchaser. "Gifts" don't include "the kid is buying it but needs the parent to do the paperwork."

Gun_'n_Run: Take the advice here given by GunLawyer.

That said, this question comes up all the time at local gun shops. A parent comes in saying they are looking for a firearm for their child who is legally qualified to possess that firearm. Depending on how strict the regs are interpreted, one could argue it's a straw purchase. However, because there is no statutory requirement for how long a parent must keep a purchased firearm before gifting it to a child who is legally qualified to possess that firearm, all of the shops around here proceed with the sale, because the law does not prohibit the parent from gifting the firearm to the child as soon after purchase as while leaving the store. OTOH, if any customer comes in saying they are looking to buy a firearm for a friend, they are politely asked to leave. The difference: PA law allows for gifting of firearms from parent to child if the child is legally qualified to possess that firearm.

That said, dealers in your area may interpret the regs differently, right or wrong. To err on the side of caution I'd suggest that your parent(s) consider purchase of the firearm, then waiting a "reasonable" period of time (like Christmas) before gifting it to you, preferable with a letter from parent to you documenting the sale. There is no need to have the firearm transferred from parent to you through an FFL, as GL pointed out above. That way, if there was any question down the road the documented facts as they transpired would speak for themselves.

Noah

[goon]

Another option - have your parents buy it for you and keep it until you're 21. I "owned" a few handguns before I was 21 that were actually my dad's as far as the law was concerned, but I was able to shoot them any time I wanted. When I turned 21 my handguns became "mine" legally. It's not like you really give anything up by doing it this way.

[sky555]

So you mean to tell me if one of my siblings brought a handgun and gifted it to our parent/grandparent , that they cant ever gift the firearm to me (im 20 and legal)? please explain how that would be a straw purchase because i thought it was all about the money you use.

[soberbyker]

So you mean to tell me if one of my siblings brought a handgun and gifted it to our parent/grandparent , that they cant ever gift the firearm to me (im 20 and legal)? please explain how that would be a straw purchase because i thought it was all about the money you use.

A straw purchase, as I understand it, is when someone buys a gun for someone who can't legally buy the gun for themselves at that time. In other words the buyer has no intention of keeping the gun a the time of purchase.

I'm not a lawyer.

.

[GunLawyer001]

A straw purchase, as I understand it, is when someone buys a gun for someone who can't legally buy the gun for themselves at that time. In other words the buyer has no intention of keeping the gun a the time of purchase.. . . .

Doesn't have to be for a prohibited person, or an underage person, or an out-of-state person. It's when the "actual" buyer induces someone else (the straw buyer) to make the purchase, where the intent is for the straw buyer to promptly turn around and convey it to the actual buyer.

It can be a straw purchase where I use my own money to buy a gun for you, when you're prohibited.

It can be a straw purchase where you give me the money to buy you a gun.

It can be a straw purchase where you're not prohibited, but you want some "off paper" guns so you get me to buy them for you.

Bona fide gifts are excepted. Calling it a "gift" doesn't turn a straw purchase into a lawful transaction. Like porn, you probably know if it's a bona fide gift or not.

It's also OK if you buy yourself a gun, decide you don't like it, then trade it later (while complying with all state & federal laws in the subsequent transfer.) A pattern of this sort of thing will attract unwanted attention.

[QuackXP]

Doesn't have to be for a prohibited person, or an underage person, or an out-of-state person. It's when the "actual" buyer induces someone else (the straw buyer) to make the purchase, where the intent is for the straw buyer to promptly turn around and convey it to the actual buyer.

It can be a straw purchase where I use my own money to buy a gun for you, when you're prohibited.

It can be a straw purchase where you give me the money to buy you a gun.

It can be a straw purchase where you're not prohibited, but you want some "off paper" guns so you get me to buy them for you.

Bona fide gifts are excepted. Calling it a "gift" doesn't turn a straw purchase into a lawful transaction. Like porn, you probably know if it's a bona fide gift or not.

It's also OK if you buy yourself a gun, decide you don't like it, then trade it later (while complying with all state & federal laws in the subsequent transfer.) A pattern of this sort of thing will attract unwanted attention.

Possibly a stupid question.

But is there any issue with me giving my girlfriend money to buy a gun for herself.