Wrongful seizure of my firearm?

[Skullz]

Depends on how hard you want to push this, but I believe the office stole your firearm and may be guilty of theft by taking.

Did he give you a receipt?

[King 5.45]

My brain is about having a seigzure right now ...

[knight0334]

The validity of your Michigan license might be at issue here. MI doesn't issue to non-residents, so when you moved from MI your license may no longer had been valid.

Also, the LEO did violate your rights. There is no legal requirement for your gun to be in the database. Without that requirement your possession is proof enough of ownership. Only the act of the transfer of ownership within PA requires a record of. Since you didn't transfer ownership, having brought the handgun to PA from MI, there was no transfer. What the officer did was violate your 4th Amendment rights.

[PaBimmerGuy]

this sort of thing worries the heck out of me. i might have two . . . make that three guns would actually be in pennsylvanias data base. most of my guns were bought when i lived in other states. receipts? 30 years later? much paperwork was lost when my basement got flooded with raw sewage when the sewer line backed up.

again this is one of those situations where if the cops do get proven in the wrong that they will cry out that they cannot be expected to know all the laws.

[mbinpa]

Not to pile on here but this is indeed one of those cases where you opened a can of worms by volunteering that you had a weapon. There is some debate as to whether this is the right thing to do under the best of circumstances but there are so many questions in your situation it would have been best to simply say "Yes Sir", "No Sir", and quietly take the ticket.

The problem is that you knew there were questions, you tried to get the answers from people not qualified to offer answers, and you tried to do the right thing but with the wrong info and under the wrong circumstances. A LEO encounter is NOT the time to find out if you are legal or not.

Bottom line, don't offer info and don't consent to any searches.

[mbinpa]

This thread opens up some follow-up issues for me.

I have a couple of questions that I think I know the answers to but I may be wrong.

1. Are you obligated to hand over the weapon if LEO asks for it? I don't believe I am but get conflicting stories.

2. Am I correct in my understanding that there is no registration or firearms database in PA? The only forms I remember are the FFL's purchase form.

3. Is the LTCF valid for any weapon I carry? Do I have to own it and how do they know it is mine?

Thanks

[doubletap99]

1) The cops in weatherly are idiots. This is the town that made national news a few years back because the police chief was raiding the evidence room for drugs.

2) Most PA cops are idiots, period, when it comes to guns/registry/etc. There is no gun registration, so your gun can't be on it...and since it isn't, they sieze it until you can prove it's yours. I never had to prove that a snowblower was mine...or a guitar, or tools, or anything else. Where is the imaginary registry for these items?

3) I hope we learned our lesson on volunteering info to the police. Heads they win, tails you lose. Now you are going to have to pay for this cop's 'on the job training', or lose your firearm.

4) You can now join the residents of New Orleans in meeting the first threat to liberty. Gun laws don't matter...police that are ignorant (by choice or otherwise) of gun laws are what matter.

[knight0334]

This thread opens up some follow-up issues for me.

I have a couple of questions that I think I know the answers to but I may be wrong.

1. Are you obligated to hand over the weapon if LEO asks for it? I don't believe I am but get conflicting stories.

2. Am I correct in my understanding that there is no registration or firearms database in PA? The only forms I remember are the FFL's purchase form.

3. Is the LTCF valid for any weapon I carry? Do I have to own it and how do they know it is mine?

Thanks

1. You are only obligated to comply with a lawful command.
2. There is no registration in PA. Only a record of transfer for transfer of ownership. It is a second form the you fill out at the FFL for handgun transfers from him. Also private transfers of handguns are required to be recorded, except transfers between spouses, parent/child, grandparent/grandchild, and from bequests/inheritances.
3. The LTCF is only for carrying "firearms" concealed or in a vehicle. A "firearm" is a pistol/revolvers with barrels less than 15", rifles with barrels less than 16", shotguns with barrels less than "18", or rifles or shotguns with overall lengths less than 26". The LTCF also covers typical long guns when in Philly and during declared emergencies. Outside of Philly and absent an emergency - long guns do not require a license to carry them openly or concealed, or in a vehicle. At no time may a long gun be loaded within a vehicle.

[JonEMTP]

Alright.

Let me summarize.

The OP paints a picture of an ignorant LEO that confiscated his firearm.

This thread holds to PAFOA standard, with the following advice:
~Don't post anymore, talk to a lawyer
~Why did you tell the LEO you had a firearm in the first place?
~Don't talk to the Po-Leece, complete wth YouTube videos.
~Did you get a receipt?

Now suggestions for recourse:
~Write a letter / Talk with CLEO
~Get a lawyer


Alright. Did I miss anything?

[son of the revolution]

1) The cops in weatherly are idiots. This is the town that made national news a few years back because the police chief was raiding the evidence room for drugs.

2) Most PA cops are idiots, period, when it comes to guns/registry/etc. There is no gun registration, so your gun can't be on it...and since it isn't, they sieze it until you can prove it's yours. And of course add the serial number of the illegally confiscated firearm to the non existent database. I never had to prove that a snowblower was mine...or a guitar, or tools, or anything else. Where is the imaginary registry for these items?

3) I hope we learned our lesson on volunteering info to the police. Heads they win, tails you lose. Now you are going to have to pay for this cop's 'on the job training', or lose your firearm.

4) You can now join the residents of New Orleans in meeting the first threat to liberty. Gun laws don't matter...police that are ignorant (by choice or otherwise) of gun laws are what matter.

Fixed it for ya