Self-loading Rifle vs Shotgun under specific circumstances.

[MarcS]

Either way, shooting in a house will make your ears ring, then it goes to a humm. But the inner ear damage will cause you some dizzyness.

Generally, loud noises only cause dizziness in people with pre-existing vestibular disorders. You're not just going to light off a round and fall down.

This is something that hasn't been brought up before.

Actually it has. That being said, suppressors for AR pattern rifles are readily available and easily installed. Guess you can chalk that up as another positive.

I'm all for training, but wouldn't you train with both ( assumimg if you have both)

That has been discussed as well. THere is only so much time and effort that can be devoted to training. This is why i select one pistol and 1 long gun to be proficient with. As they say, beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it.

[BearTitan]

Bleeding and pissed off. Doubt it.
At a close distance ( 10-15 feet ) as if someone coming up the steps, enetering a room, etc. a load of 2, 4, 0r 5's anywhere is going to stop someone. Don't think anyone with a load of shot at the head or anywhere else is going anywhere.
Just my opinion. But then again, I was responding to the post of rifle or shotgun.
I personally rely on my .45ACP loaded with "Super Vel" HPs. These are the "Flying Ashtray" loads. I have filled the cavities with potassium permanganate to ensure bleeding if the guy should get away.

Jeff

#5 doesn't even exit a squirrel and they are not wearing several layers of clothing. You are looking at 2" max penetration. I turkey hunt with #4 and can tell you that they will not penetrate feathers.

If you are aiming at the head at 10-15 feet, you should revisit your tactics.

[sgt7546]

Once I retire, I will sit around and ponder this question at nausium. Until then I will just use whatever weapon is readily available to me, based on my location in my house, at the time that a criminal decides to break in.

[BearTitan]

Once I retire, I will sit around and ponder this question at nausium. Until then I will just use whatever weapon is readily available to me, based on my location in my house, at the time that a criminal decides to break in.

C'mon sarge, we know you sleep with a Glock 22 in a pillow holster!

[sgt7546]

C'mon sarge, we know you sleep with a Glock 22 in a pillow holster!

I'd probally send my wife to dispatch the problem, she's just about as good a shot as me...wonder who trained her.

[roland]

Generally, loud noises only cause dizziness in people with pre-existing vestibular disorders. You're not just going to light off a round and fall down.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone would fall down. But, more to be aware of it. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I've done this and it's what happened to me. And HEY, "pre-existing vestibular disorders" keep my sex life out of this! jk

[TonyF]

ETA: I also note that I was at the same shotgun class as MarcS, and I, too, was a little disappointed to discover that the shotgun was not especially easy to use reliably under stress.

This is something most people will never understand until they're in a fight or training environment with a shotgun.

I get a chuckle every time I read someone suggest a shotgun for a novice because they're easy to operate.

Well, then again, they are easy to operate improperly.

[TonyF]

Even M193 out of a 16" barrel only looses significant performance well beyond the effective range of a shotgun. In the home, at 10-20' the point is moot and, as i said, both produce devastating terminal effects. I can see where you're coming from as far as an entry team that may use SBR's, but SBR's are not in common use as defensive long guns with civilians.

Even though an AR15 loaded with TAP is personal choice for HD, it still has to fragment to maximize its terminal performance. And while I acknowledge TAP at close distance probably will 99.99% of the time, it's not 100%.

A load of buckshot doesn't have to "do" anything.

Guess I just feel like arguing today.

[TonyF]

Marc/Tony,

If the autoloading rifle is superior in function and simplicity, and the shotgun ammo is superior in penetration (not over-penetrating interior walls), then would you recommend an autoloading shotgun as a best of both worlds?

No.

An autoloading SG is still heavy tricked out with a tac light, ammo carrier and extended tube. It is still slow to reload and has a more complex manual of arms.

The beauty of the carbine is its superior handling and ergonomics.

[TonyF]

Good post! LOL...I'll agree with that. All these scenarios look great in training, but things are different in the real world (unless you are sitting at home alone with your AR waiting for someone to break in?) Chances are that I ain't gonna be thinking that I should have my AR or shotgun when someone busts through the front door and all I have at my fingertips is my 9mm Ruger...it's gonna be BANG BANG and never look back! Or like roland said...All I may have available is a kitchen knife or scissors! Well, that will have to do until I get to my gun!!

Happened to a friend of mine. A break-in in the middle of the night. Grabbed his AR15 and called the police.