Arrested while CC'ing

[mattaias1]

You know, I find it quite ironic that my first post on this forum deals with this issue. I went to college right in Wilkes-Barre and a good friend of mine had a DUI and firearms incident. About two days before we graduated he got nailed on a DUI- really fogy night took the wrong on ramp and got immediately popped by the PSP. W-B cop showed up to assist. Well the PSP officer asked him to step out of the vehicle and preform the field sobriety test. He blew a .4 on the roadside test. The cop cuffed him and asked him to declare if there was anything in the car (e.g. drugs or firearms). Low and behold he "forgot" to take his pistol out of the car from shooting the day before. The W-B cop "patted" him down. By patted down I mean gave him a few good whacks in the balls. The PSP took the pistol and long story short, I had to go pick him up at the police station where he blew right around a .20. Well, he got the pistol back about a week later from the PSP. The PSP did not charge him for unlawful carry (forgot to say he didn't have a LTCF). He got ARD and finished it successfully. He told me after we left the station that the PSP was an officer and a gentleman throughout the whole thing while the W-B cop taunted him through the whole thing. How reliable it all is is arguable but I am inclined to believe him. The best advice I can give you is lawyer up to cover your ass. "Down da Valley" they will make any money anyway they can. He was/is generally a responsible person but it made both of us grow the hell up and quick. The whole incident made me rethink how I was living and acting as a young man and it did the same for him. Frankly when he got picked up it made me realize that I dodged the bullet but I heard the bullet whiz by my head. I'm not going to say don't drink and carry or even don't drink and drive but part of being a man is realizing that responsibilities are something real and not something you just talk about. Look, I understand you weren't drunk. My uncle wasn't drunk when he tried to fight a pole light even though he was most of the way through a thirty-whacker of Busch. The best thing you can do is realize discretion is the better part of valor and to take a life lesson away from this. Oh. And dress nice when you go to court. The judges REALLY appreciate it- you'll understand when you see how most of the others in front of him are dressed. It really does help your case.

[Corn Flake]

No law has ever prevented any crime

That's an unprovable statement.

How do you know that locking up a drunk driver for 30 days didn't prevent him from getting loaded and killing a car load or two of people?

I personally know 2 people who both joined programs and became sober after getting slammed with DUI penalties.

I think that Steve was being literal. For example, if murder was legal, then you could kill people and not break the law, a.k.a. commit a crime. More people will get killed, but there will be less crime since the killings are not illegal.

Or in gun terms, gun laws, like the ones in NJ, increase crime, since they make criminals of otherwise law abiding citizens.

DUI laws makes criminals of drunk drivers and probably reduces the number of drunk drivers on the road. I don't mind a cop pulling over a driver that shows signs of driving while intoxicated. OTOH, I don't agree with DUI checkpoints.

[phillykev]

Law was made, crime still committed. Statement proved!

Now, do you know of any law that has never been broken, to disprove statement?!!?

If not, then that is how it works.

I don't think anyone was trying to say that if a law exists it will never be broken. But the existence of laws does prevent SOME occurences of the behavior that has been criminalized.

If his original point was that creation of a law doesn't prevent that law from ever being broken ever again by anyone at anytime, they you have a point. But that's a ridiculous premise to start with and not even worthy of conversation.

He said, "no law has ever prevented ANY crime...." The fact is, many people don't do things only because it is illegal.

I'm sure there are quite a few people on here who would just love to have some unregistered full auto weapons, but don't for one reason and one reason only, it's illegal. Crime prevented.

[phillykev]

DUI laws makes criminals of drunk drivers and probably reduces the number of drunk drivers on the road. I don't mind a cop pulling over a driver that shows signs of driving while intoxicated. OTOH, I don't agree with DUI checkpoints.

With you 100%.

DUI laws PREVENT drunk driving and PREVENT traffic fatalities and injuries. But I agree that they shouldn't be randomly stopping people to check compliance.

[JCWohlschlag]

Really????

If that's the case, I urge ALL owners of 1911's to immediately destroy them. That is unacceptable in a firearm.

I must have missed this in my sporadically updated reading of this thread. Did you intend on replying or quoting me, or were you replying to someone else? I ask because I certainly did not say or even imply that the 1911 platform was unsafe, nor do I think anyone else in this thread has.

The portion of my post you quoted is fact. Unintentional discharges happen, due to numerous causes, to all sorts of firearms, and there are plenty of experienced members here who will tell you that. I provided evidence of such in a list of threads in which members have done exactly that. As well, hours after compiling that list, yet another incident was posted of a 1911 being unintentionally discharged into a mattress (sound familiar?), due to what the original poster believes was his own negligence in trigger finger discipline.

If you have a salient point to make in response to something I have said, I am happy to hear/read and consider your point. If all you have is a straw man, never mind; I would rather not waste anyone’s time.

[forby]

experienced[/I] members on this forum that will tell you that unintentional discharges simply happen, whether they be accidental discharges due to a malfunction of the gun, parts wear such as 1911 hammer follow from a worn sear

I just never knew that a 1911 had this potential...

I was stunned to learn from you that parts can wear to the point of failure and discharge. I have had several 1911's and quite frankly never felt comfortable with them for various reasons. I own Glocks & an H&K P7. I don't believe that a single broken or worn part would cause an unintended discharge on most of these as well as others. For example, if a cruciform(acts as sear) on the Glock breaks, it won't discharge unless I have my trigger pulled to the rear. Maybe I'm just uninformed.....

As far as the "straw man" argument, I did address your original statement. A worn sear can cause an unintended discharge is what I took from your comment.

I mean no disrespect. I was surprised by the statement. If I offended you, I apologize.. If I misunderstood, please clarify.

[Recoil]

Just my two cents and no I have NOT read every single post but, I`m just having a hard time with a reputable gun owners forum even remotely considering endorsing the handling, using, or carrying of firearms under any circumstances when alcohol is involved. If alcohol is going to be involved such as a party, picnic, dinner, etc. the gun stays at home. If I am going to be involved with any of the above and want to carry, I don`t drink. It`s that simple. If the decision to have a firearm with you conflicts with your desire to drink, then in my opinion you have a problem, and believe me, I love my beer.

I don`t care how technical the laws are or whatever, the choice to use, handle or carry a firearm is a personal one and a choice that requires your utmost attention each and everytime you touch a firearm. I don`t care if you have been handling firearms for 50 years without a single incident. That prior 50 years doesn`t mean jack shit if you become complacent and send a 180 grn .40 cal XTP down through your leg because you got sloppy reholstering. The margin of error with a firearm is.....zero point zero.

I mean, would anyone here consider having ONE beer and then going to the range? Would anyone here consider having ONE beer and then going to their firearms training? Would anyone here expect a firearms instructor, after having smelled alcohol on your breath to say, "Ohh, you`re only buzzed? Sorry, load up and lets get going!" So why then should I want to endorse and defend someone who blew a .173, and by that time was just clowning around and laughing when the police arrived? The Op wasn`t buzzed, he was ripped.

A simple BAC google search turned this up.

0.11–0.20

Over-expression
Emotional swings
Angriness or sadness
Boisterousness
SuperHuman Feeling
Decreased Libido
Reflexes
Reaction time
Gross motor control
Staggering
Slurred speech

Yeah, I`m comfortable with this guy carrying in this condition.

I have no idea if my post will be flamed or ignored or whatever, I could care less.

[chivvalry]

If I'm out for dinner and have a couple of beers I have no intention of rolling over and playing dead, or literally becoming dead, for a bad guy who decides to attack me and/or my family on the way out of the restaurant and back to the car.

Yes, I will carry my weapon and I will have a couple of beers while doing so. I am a responsible adult.

If I know I am going to be using my weapon then I certainly wouldn't be drinking. Your going to the range example is flawed...

[archangel689]

The other thing is that when you are in a situation you lose 50% of your marksmanship ability, go tunnel vision and get auditory exclusion (you cant hear...someones mouth might be moving but you arent hearing) and fine motorskills become non-existant... turning knobs, or opening locks becomes impossible. Add alcohol and I would have to say you're pretty much defenseless anyway.

[forby]

Having a beer or two while carrying seems harmless to me.

Since we can all agree that it is HIGHLY improbable that any of us would ever have to use our weapons to defend ourselves, it is a managed risk that we take. Life is about managing risks. It's why we live.

The chances of getting hit by lighting are slim, so we will walk quickly to our cars in a rain storm. If lightning happens to occur, we probably won't get hit.
Will someone likely go to the top of the highest building in a severe storm and hold up an umbrella? Probably not. The risks are managed.

If I'm in my office and a friend wants to see my Glock, I'll unholster, unload & show empty. If I'm tipping a few with friends and the same thing happens, the gun stays put. Again, the risks are managed.

If some of you feel that booze and guns are mutually exclusive in every way, then you probably have managed YOUR risks accordingly. Not everyone turns into an A-hole after a drink or two.....