Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lebanon, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Smile starting a gun club

    How does one go about starting a sportsman club? Is anyone interested in starting one with me? Preferably with a shooting range. We could start a fund with an elected treasurer. Sounds like a good idea doesn't it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada
    Age
    55
    Posts
    4,932
    Rep Power
    2212613

    Default Re: starting a gun club

    I take it you dont want to start an indoor club, mind you that looks simpler, as long as you have good strong walls that keep the shots inside...


    For an external club, you have certain limiting factors. First you want to own a lot more property then you plan on actually using. Although most people seem to theink 1000 yards in a straight line is enough for rifles. I have heard of clubs where magic bullets hit buildings 2 and 3 miles away, not even in the direction of fire, and the club was in courts in debate and paying lawyers out the nose. So consider that you have 2 to 3 miles from any rifle range you plan to have of land around you, and berns that would contain every thing shot there. Having land that is not used is not sufficient, as you can not control what will go on that land "people, bikers, cars, or even if the land gets sold a few years down the line to some contractor who builds lovely homes there. Then you would probably want "bunkers" setup for pistol revolver, the ideal situation is you want this to be large enough to have people practice IDPA and USPSA. Skeet trap and sporting clays are actually sports you can practice in a relatively small area, although noisy, the shot does not travle far compared to other shooting sports. If you plan on having full auto, an old strip mine would do well, or at least a valey between 2 mountains that you happen to own.
    You will need equipment to "farm" the land, I know sounds silly to say, but you need to maintain the land.

    If all this is already in your posession, you will need permits from the city /twp / county you are in to operate this range, you will also probably need to have permits to allow you to sell ammo and possibly want a FFL to sell guns there even if its not your main interest.
    You will need a sales permit as even if you dont sell any thign but "time" or memberships, you are still making a sale.

    Now comes the bug bucks. you will need insurance on the land for liability. If the area has a good sporting clay croud, you will need good dependable trap machines. pending if you plan on hiring trapers or not, you could be looking for as litttle as 50 throwers at $500 to $2500.
    You will need a lawyer to draw up your proposal and submit it to the proper hands. your probably going to pay this lawyers retirement fund so you might as well keep him on your payroll as you will need him regularly.

    Now you can say you have a good range where people can come practice I know your already saying but I dont want sporting clays, they cost too much to setup! Yup, but they pay out better too..
    Dont think many people in small groups have not already thought of this. Some have even looked into buying out ranges that already exist and making them better.
    Truth of the matter is, most of the ranges you find today are handed down from father to son, they been paid for years ago, and it seems easy to operate them now because the initial expence is all gone. So as they basically only have the upkeep to maintain, it seems very simple.
    Skeet is a sport where you are better to hit half of each bird then completely blast one and miss the other completely.

    The choice is yours, place your faith in the court system and 12 of your peers, or carried away by 6 friends.

    Nemo Me Impune Lacessit. 'Nobody provokes me with impunity'
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
    Clint Eastwood
    The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lebanon, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
    Posts
    8
    Rep Power
    0

    Unhappy Re: starting a gun club

    Accually an indoor range would be good too, or maybe just a pipe dream. its just so hard to find anywhere to target shoot and just plain plink.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    North Versailles, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,542
    Rep Power
    346

    Cool Re: starting a gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
    I take it you dont want to start an indoor club, mind you that looks simpler, as long as you have good strong walls that keep the shots inside...


    For an external club, you have certain limiting factors. First you want to own a lot more property then you plan on actually using. Although most people seem to theink 1000 yards in a straight line is enough for rifles. I have heard of clubs where magic bullets hit buildings 2 and 3 miles away, not even in the direction of fire, and the club was in courts in debate and paying lawyers out the nose. So consider that you have 2 to 3 miles from any rifle range you plan to have of land around you, and berns that would contain every thing shot there. Having land that is not used is not sufficient, as you can not control what will go on that land "people, bikers, cars, or even if the land gets sold a few years down the line to some contractor who builds lovely homes there. Then you would probably want "bunkers" setup for pistol revolver, the ideal situation is you want this to be large enough to have people practice IDPA and USPSA. Skeet trap and sporting clays are actually sports you can practice in a relatively small area, although noisy, the shot does not travle far compared to other shooting sports. If you plan on having full auto, an old strip mine would do well, or at least a valey between 2 mountains that you happen to own.
    You will need equipment to "farm" the land, I know sounds silly to say, but you need to maintain the land.

    If all this is already in your posession, you will need permits from the city /twp / county you are in to operate this range, you will also probably need to have permits to allow you to sell ammo and possibly want a FFL to sell guns there even if its not your main interest.
    You will need a sales permit as even if you dont sell any thign but "time" or memberships, you are still making a sale.

    Now comes the bug bucks. you will need insurance on the land for liability. If the area has a good sporting clay croud, you will need good dependable trap machines. pending if you plan on hiring trapers or not, you could be looking for as litttle as 50 throwers at $500 to $2500.
    You will need a lawyer to draw up your proposal and submit it to the proper hands. your probably going to pay this lawyers retirement fund so you might as well keep him on your payroll as you will need him regularly.

    Now you can say you have a good range where people can come practice I know your already saying but I dont want sporting clays, they cost too much to setup! Yup, but they pay out better too..
    Dont think many people in small groups have not already thought of this. Some have even looked into buying out ranges that already exist and making them better.
    Truth of the matter is, most of the ranges you find today are handed down from father to son, they been paid for years ago, and it seems easy to operate them now because the initial expence is all gone. So as they basically only have the upkeep to maintain, it seems very simple.
    Doesn't reality suck? I like scott's world better! It sounds more fun!
    "Ya only need legs to kick ass baby boy" - Bartender in Feast III

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    1,602
    Rep Power
    631471

    Default Re: starting a gun club

    Frenchy is right about how much land you will need plus the need for a Lawyer on retainer. I remember the garbage we went through at Greater Pitt with the so called Magic bullet theory. The house right beside the Mouse Trap Bar was hit in the front by a stray round. Of course we got blamed and were told that it came from our 400 yard range. Funny that bullet went out from our range traveled about 3/4 mile past the end of the range. It traveled over Rt 22 made a 160 degree turn came back over Rt 22 and hit the house on a downward trajectory. The home owner knew that the bullet did not come from our range. But the Einstein's that ran the township were positive that it did.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Terrebonne, Quebec, Canada
    Age
    55
    Posts
    4,932
    Rep Power
    2212613

    Default Re: starting a gun club

    Quote Originally Posted by ALS View Post
    Frenchy is right about how much land you will need plus the need for a Lawyer on retainer. I remember the garbage we went through at Greater Pitt with the so called Magic bullet theory. The house right beside the Mouse Trap Bar was hit in the front by a stray round. Of course we got blamed and were told that it came from our 400 yard range. Funny that bullet went out from our range traveled about 3/4 mile past the end of the range. It traveled over Rt 22 made a 160 degree turn came back over Rt 22 and hit the house on a downward trajectory. The home owner knew that the bullet did not come from our range. But the Einstein's that ran the township were positive that it did.

    I heard of 3 magic bullets there... Most from hunters or kids shooting and strays hit some thing. The gun club being the easy target, nothing as easy as saying look fools, it couldnt of come from there... Has to go through courts, then lawyers haggle the info and finally a price is set as to what it will cost to come to a decision.

    With all the bullets shot there, Its simply surprising there where not more complaints.
    Skeet is a sport where you are better to hit half of each bird then completely blast one and miss the other completely.

    The choice is yours, place your faith in the court system and 12 of your peers, or carried away by 6 friends.

    Nemo Me Impune Lacessit. 'Nobody provokes me with impunity'
    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
    Clint Eastwood
    The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Coraopolis, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    10

    Smile Re: starting a gun club

    Hi all fellow Pafoa members, have any one heard about that closed gun range "BULLSEYE INDOOR SHOOTING RANGE"? in Campbells Run Road, in Robinson Twp.,PA.....by Rt.-60 Frwy.,near the new Robinson Mall, and "The Pointe" shopping center? That "Bullseye indoor shooting range is already closed.
    I've been to this place quite a few times to shoot practice my pistol and assault rifle, and the place is very well kept with advanced required facilities indoor, and what I heard the reason why it closed is the fact that the "elite" membership fee and the per hour fee is so high for members already, and more for a regular blue collar earners to afford to mentain the expenses, and so, if this place could be bought by a new management and much lower the fees, due, membership and be opened to the whole gun sportsmen....it will be a business success.
    I remember an old chinese saying in successful businesses like this....."IT IS OK TO PROFIT LITTLE AS LONG AS CUSTOMERS ARE CONSTANT"!!
    Good luck to all.
    frm: DEEP41

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sewickley, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Age
    35
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    26

    Default Re: starting a gun club

    Man i wish someone would re-open that place! It's nice! Just too expensive.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Bridgeville, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Age
    65
    Posts
    2,978
    Rep Power
    326076

    Default Re: starting a gun club

    I shot at Bullseye once. It was $30 an hour (non member).

    They were upset with me that I walked in carrying concealed although i was the idiot that fessed up when asked.

    The bays are too narrow, you can't move.

    It would do in a pinch but just too expensive for my blue collar blood.

    At this point, I haven't joined another club as yet(current GPGC member). A friend of my wife's friend(that's not too far removed is it?) has something to do with Dormont/Mt lebanon so when I get his number, I'll see if what Bruce Unger emailed me is gospel (no shooting from holster,no night shooting, on and on). I also have to call Frank at Forest Grove. Quite a few Fire Institute guys are signed up at Pitcarin/Monroeville but thats a two tunnel jaunt for me and 45 min.

    scott, if you do open a place, do it within 10 min of Bridgeville, I certainly would appreciate it.

    27hand
    I hardly ever lie.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Philly area, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    685
    Rep Power
    111477

    Default Re: starting a gun club

    This is why you take care of the range you belong to. One day you might not have a range.

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