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Thread: LTCF Application
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July 25th, 2011, 09:38 PM #11Member
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Willow Grove,
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Re: LTCF Application
With all due respect, I think you guys are too hard on the sheriff's office. These people, from my experience, are professional and very polite, and doing their jobs as best they know how.
The legality of the police check card is another issue. A clerk at a desk is not "sticking it to me" or screwing me in any way. They are doing their job as instructed by their supervision, and doing it well. I cannot fault desk clerks for a sheriff's lack of understanding of state law. They are, from my experience, simply trying to do the right thing. How can any of us as abiding gun owners fault them for that? We can call them ignorant, sure, but at the end of the day they do not make policy.
That said, if there is indeed a forum regarding educating our local sheriff on proper PA law, my thanks goes to anyone who can point me to it.
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July 25th, 2011, 09:52 PM #12Member
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Re: LTCF Application
Above should have said "...as law abiding gun owners...". Forgive my lack of typing prowess. Working with a heavily modded (and therefore buggy) Android tablet at the moment
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July 25th, 2011, 10:01 PM #13
Re: LTCF Application
If I believed as you do, we wouldn't be near 100% compliance on the correct fee for licenses as we are now.
I don't hold back on government officials exercising authority that they don't have while infringing further beyond what the law states on a fundamental right. It is a problem if the people handling LTCF applications don't know the law, and it is a even bigger problem when local police departments ignore the law and help aid and abet such actions.
The law is abundantly clear, there is supposed to be one application form for a license to carry, there is supposed to be one uniform standard for the license, and there is supposed to be one standard fee for the process. Montgomery County needs to get stop putting extra roadblocks in the way of the right for law abiding gun owners to carry, and the citizens of Montgomery County need to wake up and realize what's going on.
You might not think it's a big deal, but statewide this was and is still is a huge problem. Your Sheriff ran you through hoops the law never intended you to jump through, and convinced you in the process that the oppression was pleasant.
You're new to this forum, so don't take it as if I'm singling you out, but I absolutely get sick when new members come on here and rave about government officials that are quietly screwing them over behind closed doors.
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July 25th, 2011, 10:11 PM #14Member
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Willow Grove,
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Re: LTCF Application
Ironsight,
Agreed. While I stand by my point that the fight is not worth taking up with the clerks sitting at the desk, I do 100% agree with your point that the sheriff is not in accordance with state law. Are you a resident of Montgomery county? If so, any ideas on how to address this with the sheriff?
Or if anyone else has ideas, I am all ears...barring suggestions on telling them to "shove it" as I believe this undermines the intelligence and debating capability of all legal PA firearm owners. We are better than that and should articulate our arguments as such
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July 25th, 2011, 10:19 PM #15
Re: LTCF Application
I live in Lehigh County. I got involved in licensing issues after I realized that over a third of all counties were charging more for license than allowed by law. Working with my State Representative, and FOAC, the rate of compliance on fees is now drastically improved. Other issues like this police check card, and reference requirements, are still being worked on.
I'm working on the drafts of a couple things right now for both this issue and the issue regarding references (try searching the law for a requirement for references, you won't find it).
I am set to have both of those done by the end of this week, and I'll make the gameplan known here on PAFOA shortly thereafter.
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July 25th, 2011, 10:32 PM #16Member
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Willow Grove,
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Re: LTCF Application
Ironsight,
Allow me to play devil' advocate for a minutes. PA firearm owners argue, when confronted by police, that PA is an open carry state, correct? And the crux of said argument is that state law says nothing regarding a requirement that firearms be concealed, correct?
If our argument is that state law does not specify a firearm be concealed, how can we advocae that the requirement for references be removed based on the fact that state law doesn't specifically state that references are not required?
Does this not contradict our own arguments regarding open vs concealed carry?
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July 25th, 2011, 10:56 PM #17
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July 25th, 2011, 11:04 PM #18
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July 25th, 2011, 11:12 PM #19
Re: LTCF Application
Government acts with the authority it is granted, and agencies within the government act within the authority the legislative bodies give them. We on the other hand have the freedom to act unless that conduct is specifically illegal (and the law making it such is not overturned as unconstitutional).
The PSP was given no authority to add requirements onto the application process, which they did with the reference "requirement". They are not a legislative body and do not write the laws of this State.
I'll also go ahead and quote myself here rather than re-type this;
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July 26th, 2011, 01:01 PM #20Member
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