Lower Providence Rod & Gun Club?

[Kb! Bob]

Kimberton doesn't have an indoor range.

I'm at LPRGC because I can shoot there at night. After the kids go to bed, I can head over there and most nights after 10, I'll have the place to myself. I think it is retarded that I can only load 6 rounds and that I can only fire one shot every three seconds. I really can't think of a practical reason for that except to "ransom" privileges in exchange for paying for their classes. That, coupled with the fact that I refuse to pay them for the "right" to use my holster, mean my training isn't very much like a real life SD situation at all. Hopefully Kimberton will get an indoor range at some point.

ETA: If anyone says it's to keep people from shooting up the ceiling, take a look at the ceiling, it isn't working.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Sooner or later an apologist will be along to tell us that the limited round and slow fire rules are to be corteous to the neighbors, which I'd accept if it werent for the fact 1.) when there are more than 2 shooters its basically continuous fire, 2.) they shoot trap under lights waaaay late and 3.) said rules do not apply to everyone. Its not about safety or noise, its about not wanting you, your black rifle, or your Glock in IWB holster on their range. If slow fire and max mag counts are a 'must', then they apply to everyone, no exceptions. If it was safety then simply let us do a safety check with an appointed and QUALIFIED range officer and be on our way.

[RXM]

I think it is retarded that I can only load 6 rounds and that I can only fire one shot every three seconds.

You gotta be kidding me! Were the original members from CA or NJ?

One thing I love about my club is that there are no such ridiculous restrictions and you can shoot as fast as you like as long as you maintain muzzle control.

[TheWolff]

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Sooner or later an apologist will be along to tell us that the limited round and slow fire rules are to be corteous to the neighbors, which I'd accept if it werent for the fact 1.) when there are more than 2 shooters its basically continuous fire, 2.) they shoot trap under lights waaaay late and 3.) said rules do not apply to everyone. Its not about safety or noise, its about not wanting you, your black rifle, or your Glock in IWB holster on their range. If slow fire and max mag counts are a 'must', then they apply to everyone, no exceptions. If it was safety then simply let us do a safety check with an appointed and QUALIFIED range officer and be on our way.

+1. My thoughts exactly.

[Pkspawn]

The club has rules, plan and simple. You can even review them before you join. The rules not applying to everyone I am not sure about. If you are speaking about those that are action and holster qualified. They are only special in that they went and got qualified to be allowed to shoot while moving, and drawing from the holster etc.

No one is prevented from getting action qualified. Yes there are limited openings for the classes they require per year. That is/was something being discussed and worked on.

I participate in just about everything the club offers, archery, trap, rifle, pistol, and I shoot in the matches. I've never had an issue with anyone. I was spoken to about rapid firing, and loading more than the rounds allowed. But that was about it. No grudge was held. But understand, mistakes with firearms can cost someone's life, so its really not the time to baby someone and try to be gentle when they are breaking a rule or safety rule.

Not a clue what you are talking about with IDPA.. I've shot IDPA like I was an USPSA match. And as long as I didn't break any safety rules, other than give me penalties, that was about all that was done. Some would give me grief, but ohh well.

I haven't seen these nazis that were spoken about. All my guns are "black guns".. I carry and shoot a glock. I think it is the glock shooters that give everyone else the most harassment when their $3k 1911 jams on them .
It is a club, and unfortunately maybe the very active minority run things while the silent majority are complaining in silence. Attend the meetings and bring up the issues. I knew about the training, simply because I had gone to a few Pistol committee meetings.

If you want changes, you need to speak up and make it happen. Not every club, or shop is a good fit for everyone, that is why we have so many different clubs and shops around to choose from.

I've shot at Southern Chester Club, they have nice shady ranges.

[TheWolff]

If you want changes, you need to speak up and make it happen.

At orientation, I asked about the rapid fire. They said the neighbors have called the cops reporting full auto fire. That's pretty much a BS answer considering 1) full auto isn't illegal to shoot 2) Multiple shooters will sound the same 3) they have events there that require rapid fire 4) you can pay them for the privilege of shooting rapid fire.

I knew it was crap, but it's not a deal-breaker for me, so I didn't push it. Like I said, it's currently the most convenient range for me, so I'll shoot there until I find something that suits me better. It is something that I think people should know about before they put down money for a membership at a gun show, that's why I put it out on the Internet. To their credit, the rule book is also on LPRGC's website, so anyone that looks into it a bit can find the info.

[dbooksta]

I participate in just about everything the club offers, archery, trap, rifle, pistol, and I shoot in the matches.

...

I haven't seen these nazis....

Exactly. You've been around enough to give the range nazis their fill of your respect, or you've joined their clique, or you've actually become one of them.

BTW, it's easy to spot the nazis even if they aren't hassling you: Just watch the members with guests, or the ones you don't recognize, and wait for the members you do recognize to approach them even when they aren't breaking any rules. Or just look for somebody wearing a "Tuesday Knights" logo and observe how they treat the less-active members and guests.

[tacticalreload]

The club has rules, plan and simple. You can even review them before you join. The rules not applying to everyone I am not sure about. If you are speaking about those that are action and holster qualified. They are only special in that they went and got qualified to be allowed to shoot while moving, and drawing from the holster etc.

No one is prevented from getting action qualified. Yes there are limited openings for the classes they require per year. That is/was something being discussed and worked on.

I participate in just about everything the club offers, archery, trap, rifle, pistol, and I shoot in the matches. I've never had an issue with anyone. I was spoken to about rapid firing, and loading more than the rounds allowed. But that was about it. No grudge was held. But understand, mistakes with firearms can cost someone's life, so its really not the time to baby someone and try to be gentle when they are breaking a rule or safety rule.

Not a clue what you are talking about with IDPA.. I've shot IDPA like I was an USPSA match. And as long as I didn't break any safety rules, other than give me penalties, that was about all that was done. Some would give me grief, but ohh well.

I haven't seen these nazis that were spoken about. All my guns are "black guns".. I carry and shoot a glock. I think it is the glock shooters that give everyone else the most harassment when their $3k 1911 jams on them .
It is a club, and unfortunately maybe the very active minority run things while the silent majority are complaining in silence. Attend the meetings and bring up the issues. I knew about the training, simply because I had gone to a few Pistol committee meetings.

If you want changes, you need to speak up and make it happen. Not every club, or shop is a good fit for everyone, that is why we have so many different clubs and shops around to choose from.

I've shot at Southern Chester Club, they have nice shady ranges.

See below...

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Sooner or later an apologist will be along to tell us...

When I was a member there a number of years ago, my main goal was to have a relatively close club where I could practice for IDPA. I had no problem with the "rules" while joining because I believed that I would be able to easily jump through the hoops. I *really* wanted to join the Tuesday night action pistol shooting sessions. I was told that I would need to start by taking the NRA Basic Pistol class and then taking the Personal Protection in the Home class. I told them that I was certified to TEACH BOTH the basic and personal protection classes and could provide proof... was told "not at this club you're not". I was pissed but I showed up at ten minutes early to the meeting in order to sign up. I asked to sign up and was told that they were full almost the entire rest of the year (2 or three classes, IIRC)... that people had started signing up well before the start of meeting and I should have been an hour early for a chance of getting a slot... I was SOL. I reiterated that I was an IDPA expert classified shooter with a lot of experience in IDPA, USPSA, steel league, etc.... that I was certified to TEACH the classes they were making me take and tried to plead my case... and that I'd be willing to go through whatever "qualifier" they wanted to give me to prove proficiency. I even went so far as to offer to teach additional sessions of the required classes, since they clearly needed them. I was told in no uncertain terms that nothing I said was worth a damn.

You say that there are "limited" slots for the classes but this is being discussed and worked on? I think it's been at least 7 YEARS since this stuff happened to me. You haven't had it figured out yet? What's to work on? Get someone to teach more classes... it's not like it's free... you charge $300 to the members to take the classes! Keep in mind that you are NOT allowed to take these same classes somewhere else and have it count toward your requirements. You can pay an instructor(s) for their time and still bring in a pretty penny for the club on top of it. Go to the club's website and read about the "lottery" process to take these classes. Then tell me if you think they need more classes or not.

Shooting at an indoor range when you can't "rapid fire" (>1 round every 3 seconds... like that's "rapid" ) wasn't of any use to me. Not being able to draw from a holster was of no use to me. I totally understand why there are rules. You can't just have any asshat off the street come in waving pistols around. I know the club is in close proximity to residential areas and is fighting a constant battle to stay up and running. But the entire process is set up to be VERY cliquish. In fact, the entire CLUB is a big clique. You get the feeling immediately... there is the Board, the Tuesday Knights, and then there is all the other worthless scum in their eyes. At the very least, to take both their classes the next time they were offered and available (assuming I could get a slot) would have easily taken over another YEAR. I should have known better when, during my mandatory work park in order to join, I was rudely yelled and cursed at by an elderly man because he didn't like the way I was stacking bags of aluminum cans and one of the other club's senior members thought that was funny.

So here's the bottom line. You're right... there is no reason why a person can't get action pistol qualified... If you want to be able to practice pistol in any manner other than loading with 6 rounds firing once every 3 seconds or longer, you need to find a sponsor right now, go to a meeting next month, apply, go to orientation which is held once a month, qualify for using the indoor range, go to a work party (which you're supposed to do every year unless you literally buy your way out of it in subsequent years), go to another meeting and pay your dues. We're okay so far. Keep in mind that initiation is $100, dues is another $116, deposit for the key is $5, if you want to bring guests, it's another $30.

Now you have to see when the next basic pistol class is being held. If you're lucky, you can get a spot in the next one that is held something like 7+ months from now... and it costs $105. Trust me, I teach this class and if you're at all familiar with handguns, you will be bored out of your skull. This class is for noobs. Also, you will most likely NOT get a space next year since the class is mostly filled by people who were wait-listed from THIS year. There is apparently a "lottery" to fill the remaining slots. GOOD LUCK. Let's suppose you play the odds and you don't get in during 2012 because of the 2011 people... now you're waiting until 2013?

Then sign up for the Personal Protection class. These are $195 and won't be available until next summer or fall depending on if you can get in. Again, you will most likely NOT get in since it's almost filled from this year's wait-listed people, with even FEWER slots available than the basic class. Now you're stuck until when? 2014?

By that point, you've been on the hook for another $332 for 2 years of dues and $60 for a guest pass and $50 if you want to buy your way out of the mandatory work party.

It's completely possible that now two or three year has gone by and you've already put out nearly $1000. You're right... not every club is for everyone. This club, IMO, is for people with more money and time to wait than for people who want to be able to shoot. Up until recently, they only had a 50 yard rifle range which is nearly worthless. I don't shoot archery, and rarely do trap.

There are much cheaper places with fewer rules and often better facilities. If it was just one or two people who complain about the process, the rules, and the attitude of the "clique" of members, the maybe you can say those people are wrong or overly sensitive. But you hear the same thing time and time again from person after person after person. So you can hardly fault these people from sharing their experiences in order to let other prospective members know about what they can expect. It wasn't worth it for me... and that appears true for a lot of other people. I only wish someone would have told me what to expect before I shelled out a couple hundred dollars to learn the hard way.

[tacticalreload]

Never knew they even existed - thanks for sharing. I reviewed their range rules on the website and some of the restrictions would keep me from joining. Glad to know there are other options out there though.

What rules specifically? The ones I think that suck the most are that they don't want loaded CCWs at the club and that there is the max of five rounds in the gun on rifle ranges and six on the handgun range. However, they do not have an ammo limit on the 25' handgun range and you're allowed to draw from a holster if you want to.

Kimberton doesn't have an indoor range.

I'm at LPRGC because I can shoot there at night. After the kids go to bed, I can head over there and most nights after 10, I'll have the place to myself. I think it is retarded that I can only load 6 rounds and that I can only fire one shot every three seconds. I really can't think of a practical reason for that except to "ransom" privileges in exchange for paying for their classes. That, coupled with the fact that I refuse to pay them for the "right" to use my holster, mean my training isn't very much like a real life SD situation at all. Hopefully Kimberton will get an indoor range at some point.

ETA: If anyone says it's to keep people from shooting up the ceiling, take a look at the ceiling, it isn't working.

You are correct... Kimberton does not have an indoor range so that does limit shooting to before sunset, which is limiting during the winter months. I don't really see them putting one in any time soon considering the cost and limit on space. But as you mentioned, the indoor range at LPRGC is nearly useless for anything other than very slowly plinking paper. If that's your primary use, you're almost be better off getting a membership at a local indoor range instead. At least then you can fill a magazine and fire a little more rapidly.

[Pkspawn]

LoL, the guy you are speaking about, yelling about the cans, that is Frank I believe. Sorry, he is funny, and someone would have to be pretty sensitive to actually let it get to them.. I go to the work parties often, just because I enjoy helping out. And I think dealing with Frank and the cans is like an initiation for new members. I just ignored him and kept on doing what I was asked my first encounter with him.

I'm not in any click, and I actually make fun of them when I am there.. I goto the rifle range and get told "Ohh you are one of those pistol guys, I goto Pistol range and get called one of those Archery guys lobbing arrows into the pistol range. It is jokes far as I'm concerned. The same guys that harass me about being a pistol guy, also let me shoot hundreds of rounds through their rifles and never asked for anything in return. And I certainly don't have a ton of money. I'm already a member of an indoor range, and another club that I can do just about anything at, even shoot full auto. So I guess I am not as affected by LPRGC rules. They had a lot more to offer that made it worth it for me.

I've brought new shooters with me there, and haven't had any issues.. I've shot trap and had people come up to me and try to instruct, and I kindly told them I only wanted to shoot lead into the air and basically leave me alone, I don't mind missing. They didn't seem happy, but can't do much about it if I am following the rules.

I don't even know what an "apologist" is and I'm not gonna google it.. LoL

[tacticalreload]

LoL, the guy you are speaking about, yelling about the cans, that is Frank I believe. Sorry, he is funny, and someone would have to be pretty sensitive to actually let it get to them.. I go to the work parties often, just because I enjoy helping out. And I think dealing with Frank and the cans is like an initiation for new members. I just ignored him and kept on doing what I was asked my first encounter with him.

I'm not in any click, and I actually make fun of them when I am there.. I goto the rifle range and get told "Ohh you are one of those pistol guys, I goto Pistol range and get called one of those Archery guys lobbing arrows into the pistol range. It is jokes far as I'm concerned. The same guys that harass me about being a pistol guy, also let me shoot hundreds of rounds through their rifles and never asked for anything in return. And I certainly don't have a ton of money. I'm already a member of an indoor range, and another club that I can do just about anything at, even shoot full auto. So I guess I am not as affected by LPRGC rules. They had a lot more to offer that made it worth it for me.

I've brought new shooters with me there, and haven't had any issues.. I've shot trap and had people come up to me and try to instruct, and I kindly told them I only wanted to shoot lead into the air and basically leave me alone, I don't mind missing. They didn't seem happy, but can't do much about it if I am following the rules.

I don't even know what an "apologist" is and I'm not gonna google it.. LoL

Sounds like you know the guy with the cans. I guess I'm more sensitive about getting yelled at... I don't like being treated or talked to like a child. That guy was an ass for absolutely no reason. However, it definitely isn't the reason why I was upset with the club enough to leave... it was just a story that I thought I'd share. Looking back, I guess I can see how it can be amusing to some as long as you're not the one getting yelled at.

It also sounds like the club is working out for you. That's cool and I certainly don't want you to think that anything I said is an attack on your membership. If it's good for you, that's great. However, it definitely wasn't for me for the reasons I listed. And it seems like more than just a minor pattern. The point of my post was not to trash people so much as it was to make sure that the "buyer beware". Be fully aware of what you're signing up for before plopping down a good chunk of money.