Lower Providence Rod & Gun Club?

[AStudman97]

Thanks for getting back to me.
I am not looking to Get in to the arguments that were made Over and over and over again ( Just spent 3 days reading the entire Thread before posting)

JCinPA - I dont have any storys really. I am getting back in to shooting after 20 years. And looking for a place to bring the wife and eventualy 2 young boys (currently 3 and almost 5)
The wife is new to shooting (has been Gun-phobic for years and its been over 10 years to get her to a place where last saterday took her shooting for the first time.)
It seems that Delco and LP both have the same saftey rules but that LP has more of the action shooting that I am looking to get in to..
I would be looking to take classes so that doesnt bother me The Times that are available would be an issue.

Also a collector of storys have you heard anything about Delco?? good, Bad, ????


dgg9- You have been posting here since it opened. I understand what your saying about certification... With out any other info I will bet the Main reason they Force you thru the Certification they offer is two fold. 1st as someone said its part of the way they May money for the Action shooting part of the club for matinance and upkeep. 2nd I am sure it has to do with insurance premiums. But this is not a point for me. 20 years ago i was only target shooting rifles and a hand gun a few times. I am looking to get in to action shooting and know I need training.
after all this time where do you shoot?
Where can some one get training? If I end up Joining Delco I will need to find a training course somewhere for basic operation safty anyway. That club seems to offer no action shooting at all.

[AStudman97]

If that is the Gripe... then there is no change.

Points have been made, discussed.

If you like a place that is focused on safety, and does allow its members to draw from a holster (after certain requirmeents are met) and is located in a suburban arean near Philadelphia... then it may be for you.

If not.. .then it may not be for you.

There are rules. These rules are meant to be followed. If looking to circumvent hte rules, then this is not the palce for you.

Good luck with your decision.

I am a member, and I enjoy shooting there. I like the people (for the most part) and they respect the rules.

I like Rules.. I Like Training (example I have been a Motorcycle Rider for almost 10 years i would say my skills are advanced to say the least... My sister and brother in law will be learning to ride in the next year and I will be joining them in the course the state offers. I completed this when i learned to ride but going over the fundementals only stands to reinforce them never detract. On the Upside I will learn something new or a new style to do something. On the down side I may spend some time and money and may just be a refresher of what I already know)
My Only down side for this club is the time I need to spend to join Tuesday nights and thursday night my wife works untill 8 pm she also works saterdays till 1 pm. so i have to watch the Kids.. It limits me to when I can participate for trying to join a club or take required classes.

[dgg9]

dgg9- You have been posting here since it opened. I understand what your saying about certification... With out any other info I will bet the Main reason they Force you thru the Certification they offer is two fold. 1st as someone said its part of the way they May money for the Action shooting part of the club for matinance and upkeep. 2nd I am sure it has to do with insurance premiums.

First, any top shelf instructor will give you a certificate after successful training. I have a whole folder of them. So there is something they can see and verify. Second, they can always insist on a qualifier. I'll take any test anyone wants. If SAFETY is really the goal, that would work. Insist on classes: sure. Insist that you buy THEIR classes and only their classes: bogus. If they want money, just raise dues for that part of the range, don't give me a song and dance that the classes are for safety, when it's about raising money (if that's the reason).

Insurance? I highly doubt an insurance carrier will make a distinction that the LPRGC Podunk Safety course will reduce premiums, but training by Farnam, Givens, etc etc etc won't. I'll bet any NRA-sanctioned safety class will suffice for that reason.

after all this time where do you shoot?

Langhorne (LRGC) works for me.

Where can some one get training?

Use the search engine; I've made a lot of posts here listing URLs for local training outfits.

[AStudman97]

dgg9 Langhorn may be to far for me.. Maybe when my boys Grow and Start shooting I can travel more.
saftey and fun are my two requirements. Thats the reason i am not looking at Joining targetmasters club. Thanks for athe Training advice.

[JCinPA]

Sorry, I can't buy your NIH argument, that somehow your local trainers and local courses have some magic elixir that renders them better and more safety-inducing than nationally established instructors.

You are reading into my post. They don't have any magic elixir, there are certainly plenty of clubs around the country where safety standards are as high. I'm just saying I like that environment and would like it anywhere.

As for the courses being to expensive, I can't speak to that. They do fill up quickly. One thing I particularly like, however, is that in their courses instead of an instructor for every 6 students or so, they are almost always very close to 1-1. The level of attention one gets from very good teachers is remarkable, IMO.

You pays your money, you takes your choices. I like the place. I gotta unsubscribe so I dont get notice about this thread in another two years.

[dbooksta]

I was going to leave this one alone, but prospective members should be aware that LPRGC has been increasingly dominated by amateur insurance adjusters and underwriters.

Tonight's story: I'm a longtime member and I brought a guest and two of my O/U shotguns to the member's Wednesday trap shoot. While at the firing line I went over the basic operation of each O/U: Barrel selector, one of them has an automatic safety, etc. The Trap Chairman comes over and says, "Are you instructing him? Because you have to be an NRA-certified instructor to give him instruction. Otherwise if something were to happen our insurance wouldn't cover it." Yep, two guys handling guns at the firing line can talk about anything other than the proper use of their firearms.

Such gratuitous assertions of authority stemming from "insurance" is not uncharacteristic of the experience you will have at any event, or even minding your own business and following the rules.

[marinakorp]

While I was not there , and can not comment specifically on that interaction.

The point I would think that was trying to be made was.

If you are not an instructor, and you provide instruction, and there is an issue that arises as a result of your instruction... The clubs insurance policy will not cover you.

Go ahead and provide instruction you feel is right, safe and in compliance with range rules. If something goes wrong and the guest says " well he told me that it was ok" ... Yo may not be covered.

I am not a lawyer. That is how I interpreted the information.

[AStudman97]

This is a little worry some. Most people i have gone shooting with recently Look for me to give Minor instruction on how to handle and use the firearm they are shooting. I can see helping my wife and getting told to stop and that would cause issues. Place facility wise still is heads above all the other places i have looked it. ( when the boys get older will be looking to Join)

[dbooksta]

Go ahead and provide instruction you feel is right, safe and in compliance with range rules. If something goes wrong and the guest says " well he told me that it was ok" ... Yo may not be covered.

You already have to fill out and have the guest sign an insurance waiver the minute he sets foot on the club. Everyone member knows they're responsible for their guests.

The spirit and content of these frequent interactions is, "I'm a guy who enjoys stomping around the ranges getting in peoples' faces. When they're not breaking the rules and I need my power fix I'll make something up about insurance to show them what a big man I am."

For example, yesterday's incident was not a friendly, "Make sure you have your personal umbrella liability policy up to date." It was more, "I'm a big-shot certified NRA instructor, see? I've never seen your guest here before, so I'd better intimidate you in front of him so he knows that not all members are equal at LPRGC."


Another example I've suffered on more than one occasion: I walk up to the outdoor range and put my cased pistols and shooting bag on the bench. One of the elite "Tuesday Knights" walks up and says, "Are you action pistol qualified?" (Of course they know I'm not because I haven't paid the substantial time and money to join their sub-club.) I say no, so they smugly and gratuitously announce to me and my guests, "OK, then you won't be drawing from a holster today." Right, not enough that it's in the rulebook and posted on the signs all around the range. Just another big-shot who wants everyone to know that not all members are equal at LPRGC.

[LongTimeShooter]

dabooksta ,
I am so sorry for the treatment you and your friend received at the Wednesday Members Only Trapshoot. You hit the nail on the head with the observation you made on the “ TRAP CHAIRMAN “ What you encountered was not the Clubs fault but it does reflect badly on the club itself because of one mans POWER TRIP . And his need to make himself more important than any other Club Member. Not the kind of person that makes the club look good in any light . I am surprised that he has not made a personal parking spot for himself with his name on it yet at the Club.
Now I would like to give some info on being an NRA Instructor. If you take the NRA Instructors Course ,as many do , and pay those hundreds of dollars for that Certification. Once you get the CERT. , you can from the NRA purchase a $1,000,000 Liability Policy to protect YOURSELF , in the event something would happen. If you do not look closely at it ,you will not know that it only covers you when you are doing an NRA Class. So what you were told that Wednesday Night was outrageous.
If you look at it , you are not covered for a onetime statement or explaining how the safety and barrel selector switch operates. You are not covered for standing by someone who is a new shooter ,or is using a gun they are not familiar with. If god forbid something did happen in that case. The Letter you would receive from the NRA would start out something like this, “ We are Sorry BUT you were not doing NRA Instruction.
What you were doing is what any good shooter would have done , you stood by someone who was using a gun They were not familiar with . In doing what you did , you were looking out for the safety of everyone there at the time . And as a Club Member I want to THANK YOU for doing that. Far too many times a new shooter will come to a club and want to shoot. But they are many times afraid to ask for help. So you see them standing in the backround , watching and trying to figure out how a round of Trap is shot. They may have been out many times hunting, or shooting clays from a hand trap in an open field ,but have never shot a round of trap in a setting they see at a Club.
What you did is what everyone should be doing , helping out their fellow shooters without embarrassing them . You saw a situation, you stood by the Shooter and you counseled them in the safe operation of a gun they were not familiar with. And once again I THANK YOU for that. You made a good impression of the club with what you did. And you got singled out in an inappropriate way for something that you did while protecting the club and the shooters.
Now he is the kicker about all this. As a Trap Chairman this man approached you ,and told you if something happened the club would not be covered by their insurance . So what in essence you were told you are not aloud to look after the safety of the club and its shooters and the person who you were with should ,According to the Trap Chairman be on the line alone , with a gun they were not familiar with and shooting with no instruction. BECAUSE YOU WERE NOT AN NRA INSTRUCTOR .
How stupid is that ? You did the right thing . You stayed there with your friend , You were making sure he and everyone else were safe. And for that I applaud you for doing the right thing. Making sure everyone was safe.
I condemn the Trap Chairman , who of all people should be the most concerned about safety ,and in your case the only thing he was concerned about was letting you know who was in charge. These types of intimidation is what gives our club a bad name . He did not help he only hurt the club.
If he is a Certified Instructor ,then he needs to go back the the very beginning and read the SAFE GUN HANDLING RULES . Because he sure as hell did not do anyone a favor with his attitude ,and bullying tactics. He only went on to re-enforce the view that many people have about LPRGC . And the shame is , it is not the club ,it is a few people ,with big egos that need to show everyone who is in charge.
No matter what, YOU DID A GOOD JOB , YOU DID THE RIGHT THING , YOU KEPT THE CLUB AND SHOOTERS SAFE . And for that I cannot Thank You enough for what you did keeping everyone safe.
Once Again , THANK YOU FOR KEEPING ALL OF US SAFE AT OUR CLUB. And keep up the good work. Our Club needs more good , and caring people like yourself. Keep up the good work and I hope you do not leave the club because of one incident.